What would be used for “coordinates” on a large asteroid?











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Assuming we had a non-spherical asteroid that doesn't have a magnetic "north", how would the inhabitants define areas on the asteroid? How would they explain to a visitor to go to a very specific spot to retrieve or leave something besides "head over the hill sunward for 50 km"










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Assuming we had a non-spherical asteroid that doesn't have a magnetic "north", how would the inhabitants define areas on the asteroid? How would they explain to a visitor to go to a very specific spot to retrieve or leave something besides "head over the hill sunward for 50 km"










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  • Welcome to Worldbuilding! Great first question!
    – kingledion
    4 hours ago













up vote
7
down vote

favorite









up vote
7
down vote

favorite











Assuming we had a non-spherical asteroid that doesn't have a magnetic "north", how would the inhabitants define areas on the asteroid? How would they explain to a visitor to go to a very specific spot to retrieve or leave something besides "head over the hill sunward for 50 km"










share|improve this question









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Assuming we had a non-spherical asteroid that doesn't have a magnetic "north", how would the inhabitants define areas on the asteroid? How would they explain to a visitor to go to a very specific spot to retrieve or leave something besides "head over the hill sunward for 50 km"







map-making asteroids






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edited 4 hours ago









kingledion

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asked 5 hours ago









TChris Gardner

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362




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  • Welcome to Worldbuilding! Great first question!
    – kingledion
    4 hours ago


















  • Welcome to Worldbuilding! Great first question!
    – kingledion
    4 hours ago
















Welcome to Worldbuilding! Great first question!
– kingledion
4 hours ago




Welcome to Worldbuilding! Great first question!
– kingledion
4 hours ago










4 Answers
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up vote
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My suggestion would be that you select a point on the asteroid to act as a pole. Perhaps the point of first landing? Then, using that point and asteroid's centre of gravity as references, you can map spherical coordinates.






share|improve this answer



















  • 2




    This is the only option. The details may vary: such as using geostationary satelites, but because astroids don't have poles and their arbitrary rotation makes external (independent of the asteroid) references almost meaningless, picking a point and pounding in the proverbial survey stake is all you can do to guarantee a predictable solution. Consider the Paris Meridian.
    – JBH
    5 hours ago












  • How well do spherical coordinates map to an asteroid that isn't necessarily spherical? Many of them are pretty substantially "squished" in one direction or another.
    – Cadence
    3 hours ago










  • @Cadence, polar coordinates are only one way to map things.
    – JBH
    2 hours ago


















up vote
4
down vote













Whoever is going to be on that asteroid will necessarily used radio communication to keep in contact with the rest of the crew.



To ensure communication a network of antennas has to be established, since a single antenna could at best serve half of the asteroid.



Each position can then be simply referred to the distance from the (closest) antennas.






share|improve this answer




























    up vote
    2
    down vote













    I'd maybe consider using the axis of rotation - it would be a very rare asteroid that isn't rotating somehow. Imagine sticking a skewer through the asteroid along the axis. That would give you a top and bottom, and then you can use spinwise and counter-spinwise (or something similar).



    Obviously only works if you have an asteroid that is rotating nicely, something that is rotating a bit more chaotically might be more of an issue. If it's not rotating at all, or is spinning chaotically then Arkenstein XII's answer is definitely the way to go.






    share|improve this answer




























      up vote
      1
      down vote













      You can use the same coordinate system for celestial navigation (latitude and longitude) used by Terran mariners. What you need is : an almanac, a watch, a device for measuring the angle of the stars relative to some average horizon, and a map.



      Almanac



      The basic concept of celestial navigation is this : imagine several easily-recognizable stars. Next, imagine that you could draw a line from each of these stars that would pass through the center of whatever you are standing on. This line will touch the ground at one (only one) location. An almanac records these stars and the location (in latitude and longitude) of the point on the surface where the imaginary line from the star touches the ground.



      Watch and Calendar



      And, this spot will move as the object rotates around it's own axis (days); but will only move a little with the seasons.



      Measurement Device (Sextant)



      When you are standing on the spot where this imaginary line from your easily-recognizable star intersects the ground, that star will be directly overhead.



      Map



      Likely, you are not standing on one of these spots at any particular time. The angular measurement times the average radius of the asteroid provides you with the approximate circular (radial) distance between that point and where you are. Measure multiple stars to determine where these circles overlap on a map. That is your (approximate) location






      share|improve this answer





















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        4 Answers
        4






        active

        oldest

        votes








        4 Answers
        4






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes








        up vote
        6
        down vote













        My suggestion would be that you select a point on the asteroid to act as a pole. Perhaps the point of first landing? Then, using that point and asteroid's centre of gravity as references, you can map spherical coordinates.






        share|improve this answer



















        • 2




          This is the only option. The details may vary: such as using geostationary satelites, but because astroids don't have poles and their arbitrary rotation makes external (independent of the asteroid) references almost meaningless, picking a point and pounding in the proverbial survey stake is all you can do to guarantee a predictable solution. Consider the Paris Meridian.
          – JBH
          5 hours ago












        • How well do spherical coordinates map to an asteroid that isn't necessarily spherical? Many of them are pretty substantially "squished" in one direction or another.
          – Cadence
          3 hours ago










        • @Cadence, polar coordinates are only one way to map things.
          – JBH
          2 hours ago















        up vote
        6
        down vote













        My suggestion would be that you select a point on the asteroid to act as a pole. Perhaps the point of first landing? Then, using that point and asteroid's centre of gravity as references, you can map spherical coordinates.






        share|improve this answer



















        • 2




          This is the only option. The details may vary: such as using geostationary satelites, but because astroids don't have poles and their arbitrary rotation makes external (independent of the asteroid) references almost meaningless, picking a point and pounding in the proverbial survey stake is all you can do to guarantee a predictable solution. Consider the Paris Meridian.
          – JBH
          5 hours ago












        • How well do spherical coordinates map to an asteroid that isn't necessarily spherical? Many of them are pretty substantially "squished" in one direction or another.
          – Cadence
          3 hours ago










        • @Cadence, polar coordinates are only one way to map things.
          – JBH
          2 hours ago













        up vote
        6
        down vote










        up vote
        6
        down vote









        My suggestion would be that you select a point on the asteroid to act as a pole. Perhaps the point of first landing? Then, using that point and asteroid's centre of gravity as references, you can map spherical coordinates.






        share|improve this answer














        My suggestion would be that you select a point on the asteroid to act as a pole. Perhaps the point of first landing? Then, using that point and asteroid's centre of gravity as references, you can map spherical coordinates.







        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited 5 hours ago

























        answered 5 hours ago









        Arkenstein XII

        1,755219




        1,755219








        • 2




          This is the only option. The details may vary: such as using geostationary satelites, but because astroids don't have poles and their arbitrary rotation makes external (independent of the asteroid) references almost meaningless, picking a point and pounding in the proverbial survey stake is all you can do to guarantee a predictable solution. Consider the Paris Meridian.
          – JBH
          5 hours ago












        • How well do spherical coordinates map to an asteroid that isn't necessarily spherical? Many of them are pretty substantially "squished" in one direction or another.
          – Cadence
          3 hours ago










        • @Cadence, polar coordinates are only one way to map things.
          – JBH
          2 hours ago














        • 2




          This is the only option. The details may vary: such as using geostationary satelites, but because astroids don't have poles and their arbitrary rotation makes external (independent of the asteroid) references almost meaningless, picking a point and pounding in the proverbial survey stake is all you can do to guarantee a predictable solution. Consider the Paris Meridian.
          – JBH
          5 hours ago












        • How well do spherical coordinates map to an asteroid that isn't necessarily spherical? Many of them are pretty substantially "squished" in one direction or another.
          – Cadence
          3 hours ago










        • @Cadence, polar coordinates are only one way to map things.
          – JBH
          2 hours ago








        2




        2




        This is the only option. The details may vary: such as using geostationary satelites, but because astroids don't have poles and their arbitrary rotation makes external (independent of the asteroid) references almost meaningless, picking a point and pounding in the proverbial survey stake is all you can do to guarantee a predictable solution. Consider the Paris Meridian.
        – JBH
        5 hours ago






        This is the only option. The details may vary: such as using geostationary satelites, but because astroids don't have poles and their arbitrary rotation makes external (independent of the asteroid) references almost meaningless, picking a point and pounding in the proverbial survey stake is all you can do to guarantee a predictable solution. Consider the Paris Meridian.
        – JBH
        5 hours ago














        How well do spherical coordinates map to an asteroid that isn't necessarily spherical? Many of them are pretty substantially "squished" in one direction or another.
        – Cadence
        3 hours ago




        How well do spherical coordinates map to an asteroid that isn't necessarily spherical? Many of them are pretty substantially "squished" in one direction or another.
        – Cadence
        3 hours ago












        @Cadence, polar coordinates are only one way to map things.
        – JBH
        2 hours ago




        @Cadence, polar coordinates are only one way to map things.
        – JBH
        2 hours ago










        up vote
        4
        down vote













        Whoever is going to be on that asteroid will necessarily used radio communication to keep in contact with the rest of the crew.



        To ensure communication a network of antennas has to be established, since a single antenna could at best serve half of the asteroid.



        Each position can then be simply referred to the distance from the (closest) antennas.






        share|improve this answer

























          up vote
          4
          down vote













          Whoever is going to be on that asteroid will necessarily used radio communication to keep in contact with the rest of the crew.



          To ensure communication a network of antennas has to be established, since a single antenna could at best serve half of the asteroid.



          Each position can then be simply referred to the distance from the (closest) antennas.






          share|improve this answer























            up vote
            4
            down vote










            up vote
            4
            down vote









            Whoever is going to be on that asteroid will necessarily used radio communication to keep in contact with the rest of the crew.



            To ensure communication a network of antennas has to be established, since a single antenna could at best serve half of the asteroid.



            Each position can then be simply referred to the distance from the (closest) antennas.






            share|improve this answer












            Whoever is going to be on that asteroid will necessarily used radio communication to keep in contact with the rest of the crew.



            To ensure communication a network of antennas has to be established, since a single antenna could at best serve half of the asteroid.



            Each position can then be simply referred to the distance from the (closest) antennas.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered 4 hours ago









            L.Dutch

            71.4k22171343




            71.4k22171343






















                up vote
                2
                down vote













                I'd maybe consider using the axis of rotation - it would be a very rare asteroid that isn't rotating somehow. Imagine sticking a skewer through the asteroid along the axis. That would give you a top and bottom, and then you can use spinwise and counter-spinwise (or something similar).



                Obviously only works if you have an asteroid that is rotating nicely, something that is rotating a bit more chaotically might be more of an issue. If it's not rotating at all, or is spinning chaotically then Arkenstein XII's answer is definitely the way to go.






                share|improve this answer

























                  up vote
                  2
                  down vote













                  I'd maybe consider using the axis of rotation - it would be a very rare asteroid that isn't rotating somehow. Imagine sticking a skewer through the asteroid along the axis. That would give you a top and bottom, and then you can use spinwise and counter-spinwise (or something similar).



                  Obviously only works if you have an asteroid that is rotating nicely, something that is rotating a bit more chaotically might be more of an issue. If it's not rotating at all, or is spinning chaotically then Arkenstein XII's answer is definitely the way to go.






                  share|improve this answer























                    up vote
                    2
                    down vote










                    up vote
                    2
                    down vote









                    I'd maybe consider using the axis of rotation - it would be a very rare asteroid that isn't rotating somehow. Imagine sticking a skewer through the asteroid along the axis. That would give you a top and bottom, and then you can use spinwise and counter-spinwise (or something similar).



                    Obviously only works if you have an asteroid that is rotating nicely, something that is rotating a bit more chaotically might be more of an issue. If it's not rotating at all, or is spinning chaotically then Arkenstein XII's answer is definitely the way to go.






                    share|improve this answer












                    I'd maybe consider using the axis of rotation - it would be a very rare asteroid that isn't rotating somehow. Imagine sticking a skewer through the asteroid along the axis. That would give you a top and bottom, and then you can use spinwise and counter-spinwise (or something similar).



                    Obviously only works if you have an asteroid that is rotating nicely, something that is rotating a bit more chaotically might be more of an issue. If it's not rotating at all, or is spinning chaotically then Arkenstein XII's answer is definitely the way to go.







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered 2 hours ago









                    PainlessDocJ

                    712




                    712






















                        up vote
                        1
                        down vote













                        You can use the same coordinate system for celestial navigation (latitude and longitude) used by Terran mariners. What you need is : an almanac, a watch, a device for measuring the angle of the stars relative to some average horizon, and a map.



                        Almanac



                        The basic concept of celestial navigation is this : imagine several easily-recognizable stars. Next, imagine that you could draw a line from each of these stars that would pass through the center of whatever you are standing on. This line will touch the ground at one (only one) location. An almanac records these stars and the location (in latitude and longitude) of the point on the surface where the imaginary line from the star touches the ground.



                        Watch and Calendar



                        And, this spot will move as the object rotates around it's own axis (days); but will only move a little with the seasons.



                        Measurement Device (Sextant)



                        When you are standing on the spot where this imaginary line from your easily-recognizable star intersects the ground, that star will be directly overhead.



                        Map



                        Likely, you are not standing on one of these spots at any particular time. The angular measurement times the average radius of the asteroid provides you with the approximate circular (radial) distance between that point and where you are. Measure multiple stars to determine where these circles overlap on a map. That is your (approximate) location






                        share|improve this answer

























                          up vote
                          1
                          down vote













                          You can use the same coordinate system for celestial navigation (latitude and longitude) used by Terran mariners. What you need is : an almanac, a watch, a device for measuring the angle of the stars relative to some average horizon, and a map.



                          Almanac



                          The basic concept of celestial navigation is this : imagine several easily-recognizable stars. Next, imagine that you could draw a line from each of these stars that would pass through the center of whatever you are standing on. This line will touch the ground at one (only one) location. An almanac records these stars and the location (in latitude and longitude) of the point on the surface where the imaginary line from the star touches the ground.



                          Watch and Calendar



                          And, this spot will move as the object rotates around it's own axis (days); but will only move a little with the seasons.



                          Measurement Device (Sextant)



                          When you are standing on the spot where this imaginary line from your easily-recognizable star intersects the ground, that star will be directly overhead.



                          Map



                          Likely, you are not standing on one of these spots at any particular time. The angular measurement times the average radius of the asteroid provides you with the approximate circular (radial) distance between that point and where you are. Measure multiple stars to determine where these circles overlap on a map. That is your (approximate) location






                          share|improve this answer























                            up vote
                            1
                            down vote










                            up vote
                            1
                            down vote









                            You can use the same coordinate system for celestial navigation (latitude and longitude) used by Terran mariners. What you need is : an almanac, a watch, a device for measuring the angle of the stars relative to some average horizon, and a map.



                            Almanac



                            The basic concept of celestial navigation is this : imagine several easily-recognizable stars. Next, imagine that you could draw a line from each of these stars that would pass through the center of whatever you are standing on. This line will touch the ground at one (only one) location. An almanac records these stars and the location (in latitude and longitude) of the point on the surface where the imaginary line from the star touches the ground.



                            Watch and Calendar



                            And, this spot will move as the object rotates around it's own axis (days); but will only move a little with the seasons.



                            Measurement Device (Sextant)



                            When you are standing on the spot where this imaginary line from your easily-recognizable star intersects the ground, that star will be directly overhead.



                            Map



                            Likely, you are not standing on one of these spots at any particular time. The angular measurement times the average radius of the asteroid provides you with the approximate circular (radial) distance between that point and where you are. Measure multiple stars to determine where these circles overlap on a map. That is your (approximate) location






                            share|improve this answer












                            You can use the same coordinate system for celestial navigation (latitude and longitude) used by Terran mariners. What you need is : an almanac, a watch, a device for measuring the angle of the stars relative to some average horizon, and a map.



                            Almanac



                            The basic concept of celestial navigation is this : imagine several easily-recognizable stars. Next, imagine that you could draw a line from each of these stars that would pass through the center of whatever you are standing on. This line will touch the ground at one (only one) location. An almanac records these stars and the location (in latitude and longitude) of the point on the surface where the imaginary line from the star touches the ground.



                            Watch and Calendar



                            And, this spot will move as the object rotates around it's own axis (days); but will only move a little with the seasons.



                            Measurement Device (Sextant)



                            When you are standing on the spot where this imaginary line from your easily-recognizable star intersects the ground, that star will be directly overhead.



                            Map



                            Likely, you are not standing on one of these spots at any particular time. The angular measurement times the average radius of the asteroid provides you with the approximate circular (radial) distance between that point and where you are. Measure multiple stars to determine where these circles overlap on a map. That is your (approximate) location







                            share|improve this answer












                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer










                            answered 2 hours ago









                            James McLellan

                            5,6011632




                            5,6011632






















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