Is sound the best way to transmit a signal under water?
up vote
2
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Could sound be used in transmitting sound waves under water digitally? Could the sound then be converted by a repeater to transit by radio waves? What other ways can a signal be transmitted other than sound over long distances under water?
https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/32421/how-would-a-transmission-be-relayed-through-bottom-of-europa-ocean-to-earth
filter-design preprocessing
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
Could sound be used in transmitting sound waves under water digitally? Could the sound then be converted by a repeater to transit by radio waves? What other ways can a signal be transmitted other than sound over long distances under water?
https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/32421/how-would-a-transmission-be-relayed-through-bottom-of-europa-ocean-to-earth
filter-design preprocessing
1
This might be a better fit for electronics.stackexchange.com, fyi
– Carlos Danger
5 hours ago
1
the way to do that is flag your post as being in need of moderator attention
– Carlos Danger
5 hours ago
Migration failed because Muze is currently suspended from the Electronics SE site. Reopening here.
– Peter K.♦
4 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
Could sound be used in transmitting sound waves under water digitally? Could the sound then be converted by a repeater to transit by radio waves? What other ways can a signal be transmitted other than sound over long distances under water?
https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/32421/how-would-a-transmission-be-relayed-through-bottom-of-europa-ocean-to-earth
filter-design preprocessing
Could sound be used in transmitting sound waves under water digitally? Could the sound then be converted by a repeater to transit by radio waves? What other ways can a signal be transmitted other than sound over long distances under water?
https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/32421/how-would-a-transmission-be-relayed-through-bottom-of-europa-ocean-to-earth
filter-design preprocessing
filter-design preprocessing
edited 4 hours ago
asked 6 hours ago
Muze
1166
1166
1
This might be a better fit for electronics.stackexchange.com, fyi
– Carlos Danger
5 hours ago
1
the way to do that is flag your post as being in need of moderator attention
– Carlos Danger
5 hours ago
Migration failed because Muze is currently suspended from the Electronics SE site. Reopening here.
– Peter K.♦
4 hours ago
add a comment |
1
This might be a better fit for electronics.stackexchange.com, fyi
– Carlos Danger
5 hours ago
1
the way to do that is flag your post as being in need of moderator attention
– Carlos Danger
5 hours ago
Migration failed because Muze is currently suspended from the Electronics SE site. Reopening here.
– Peter K.♦
4 hours ago
1
1
This might be a better fit for electronics.stackexchange.com, fyi
– Carlos Danger
5 hours ago
This might be a better fit for electronics.stackexchange.com, fyi
– Carlos Danger
5 hours ago
1
1
the way to do that is flag your post as being in need of moderator attention
– Carlos Danger
5 hours ago
the way to do that is flag your post as being in need of moderator attention
– Carlos Danger
5 hours ago
Migration failed because Muze is currently suspended from the Electronics SE site. Reopening here.
– Peter K.♦
4 hours ago
Migration failed because Muze is currently suspended from the Electronics SE site. Reopening here.
– Peter K.♦
4 hours ago
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
up vote
4
down vote
accepted
Yes, it is called acoustic communications. Here is an example of a paper that uses orthogonal frequency division multiplexing (OFDM) in an underwater acoustic channel.
EDIT:
Note that you wouldn't call it a SONAR any more because SONAR stands for SOund Navigation And Ranging, whereas this is a communication system, just like you wouldn't call your cell phone a radar.
EDIT 2:
Yes, the signal could be converted to a radio signal at a repeater. The repeater would ideally be floating in the surface and have a transducer (which is basically a microphone or array of microphones) on the underwater side to receive the sound waves. The transducer converts the sound waves into an electrical signal, which can be filtered and/or amplified, and then sent to an antenna for radio transmission. The antenna would likely need to be above water because radio waves don't propagate very far through water.
Thank you if Ok I may add illustration of this?
– Muze
6 hours ago
@Muze are you talking about taking a figure from the paper? If so, you'd need copyright permission from IEEE
– Carlos Danger
6 hours ago
1
@Muze just go to scholar.google.com and search "underwater acoustic communications". You will find a lot of papers on the subject
– Carlos Danger
6 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Yes, actually sound waves are better than RF signal in underwater, because of the low frequency requirement. We don't covert sound waves to radio signals. The transceiver in this case is called transducer.
New contributor
but is the best method?
– Muze
5 hours ago
Yes, because RF signals have high path loss in underwater, and low frequency signals mean very large antennas, which require more space and more power.
– BlackMath
4 hours ago
I up voted you could you tell me what other than sound or RF option is there to transmit under water?
– Muze
4 hours ago
1
@Muze You have basically three options in underwater: RF signals, acoustic signals, and optical signals. RF signals suffer from large path loss, and the range of transmission is in meters. Optical signals suffer from scattering. Acoustic signals suffer from low propagation speed (~1500 m/s), but the transmission range is better than RF signals. Also, you don't need large antennas when transmitting low frequency acoustic signals, which is the case for RF signals. The bandwidth can be increased by using relay-assisted systems.
– BlackMath
3 hours ago
1
sonobuoys convert sound to rf.
– Stanley Pawlukiewicz
2 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
up vote
1
down vote
to be picky, RF is strongly attenuated is salt water.
Fresh water is much less attenuated. During WW2 submerged submarines could use their radios in Lake Michigan.
Very low frequency RF communications is possible in salt water. The bit rate is very low.
Fiber optic cables work well too.
Acoustics tend to be attenuated as well.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
This is incredibly common in aquatic robotics. There are multiple uses for underwater acoustic communication such as data transfer, localization to a surface vessel, mission control etc.
New contributor
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
4
down vote
accepted
Yes, it is called acoustic communications. Here is an example of a paper that uses orthogonal frequency division multiplexing (OFDM) in an underwater acoustic channel.
EDIT:
Note that you wouldn't call it a SONAR any more because SONAR stands for SOund Navigation And Ranging, whereas this is a communication system, just like you wouldn't call your cell phone a radar.
EDIT 2:
Yes, the signal could be converted to a radio signal at a repeater. The repeater would ideally be floating in the surface and have a transducer (which is basically a microphone or array of microphones) on the underwater side to receive the sound waves. The transducer converts the sound waves into an electrical signal, which can be filtered and/or amplified, and then sent to an antenna for radio transmission. The antenna would likely need to be above water because radio waves don't propagate very far through water.
Thank you if Ok I may add illustration of this?
– Muze
6 hours ago
@Muze are you talking about taking a figure from the paper? If so, you'd need copyright permission from IEEE
– Carlos Danger
6 hours ago
1
@Muze just go to scholar.google.com and search "underwater acoustic communications". You will find a lot of papers on the subject
– Carlos Danger
6 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
accepted
Yes, it is called acoustic communications. Here is an example of a paper that uses orthogonal frequency division multiplexing (OFDM) in an underwater acoustic channel.
EDIT:
Note that you wouldn't call it a SONAR any more because SONAR stands for SOund Navigation And Ranging, whereas this is a communication system, just like you wouldn't call your cell phone a radar.
EDIT 2:
Yes, the signal could be converted to a radio signal at a repeater. The repeater would ideally be floating in the surface and have a transducer (which is basically a microphone or array of microphones) on the underwater side to receive the sound waves. The transducer converts the sound waves into an electrical signal, which can be filtered and/or amplified, and then sent to an antenna for radio transmission. The antenna would likely need to be above water because radio waves don't propagate very far through water.
Thank you if Ok I may add illustration of this?
– Muze
6 hours ago
@Muze are you talking about taking a figure from the paper? If so, you'd need copyright permission from IEEE
– Carlos Danger
6 hours ago
1
@Muze just go to scholar.google.com and search "underwater acoustic communications". You will find a lot of papers on the subject
– Carlos Danger
6 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
accepted
up vote
4
down vote
accepted
Yes, it is called acoustic communications. Here is an example of a paper that uses orthogonal frequency division multiplexing (OFDM) in an underwater acoustic channel.
EDIT:
Note that you wouldn't call it a SONAR any more because SONAR stands for SOund Navigation And Ranging, whereas this is a communication system, just like you wouldn't call your cell phone a radar.
EDIT 2:
Yes, the signal could be converted to a radio signal at a repeater. The repeater would ideally be floating in the surface and have a transducer (which is basically a microphone or array of microphones) on the underwater side to receive the sound waves. The transducer converts the sound waves into an electrical signal, which can be filtered and/or amplified, and then sent to an antenna for radio transmission. The antenna would likely need to be above water because radio waves don't propagate very far through water.
Yes, it is called acoustic communications. Here is an example of a paper that uses orthogonal frequency division multiplexing (OFDM) in an underwater acoustic channel.
EDIT:
Note that you wouldn't call it a SONAR any more because SONAR stands for SOund Navigation And Ranging, whereas this is a communication system, just like you wouldn't call your cell phone a radar.
EDIT 2:
Yes, the signal could be converted to a radio signal at a repeater. The repeater would ideally be floating in the surface and have a transducer (which is basically a microphone or array of microphones) on the underwater side to receive the sound waves. The transducer converts the sound waves into an electrical signal, which can be filtered and/or amplified, and then sent to an antenna for radio transmission. The antenna would likely need to be above water because radio waves don't propagate very far through water.
edited 6 hours ago
answered 6 hours ago
Carlos Danger
1,343316
1,343316
Thank you if Ok I may add illustration of this?
– Muze
6 hours ago
@Muze are you talking about taking a figure from the paper? If so, you'd need copyright permission from IEEE
– Carlos Danger
6 hours ago
1
@Muze just go to scholar.google.com and search "underwater acoustic communications". You will find a lot of papers on the subject
– Carlos Danger
6 hours ago
add a comment |
Thank you if Ok I may add illustration of this?
– Muze
6 hours ago
@Muze are you talking about taking a figure from the paper? If so, you'd need copyright permission from IEEE
– Carlos Danger
6 hours ago
1
@Muze just go to scholar.google.com and search "underwater acoustic communications". You will find a lot of papers on the subject
– Carlos Danger
6 hours ago
Thank you if Ok I may add illustration of this?
– Muze
6 hours ago
Thank you if Ok I may add illustration of this?
– Muze
6 hours ago
@Muze are you talking about taking a figure from the paper? If so, you'd need copyright permission from IEEE
– Carlos Danger
6 hours ago
@Muze are you talking about taking a figure from the paper? If so, you'd need copyright permission from IEEE
– Carlos Danger
6 hours ago
1
1
@Muze just go to scholar.google.com and search "underwater acoustic communications". You will find a lot of papers on the subject
– Carlos Danger
6 hours ago
@Muze just go to scholar.google.com and search "underwater acoustic communications". You will find a lot of papers on the subject
– Carlos Danger
6 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Yes, actually sound waves are better than RF signal in underwater, because of the low frequency requirement. We don't covert sound waves to radio signals. The transceiver in this case is called transducer.
New contributor
but is the best method?
– Muze
5 hours ago
Yes, because RF signals have high path loss in underwater, and low frequency signals mean very large antennas, which require more space and more power.
– BlackMath
4 hours ago
I up voted you could you tell me what other than sound or RF option is there to transmit under water?
– Muze
4 hours ago
1
@Muze You have basically three options in underwater: RF signals, acoustic signals, and optical signals. RF signals suffer from large path loss, and the range of transmission is in meters. Optical signals suffer from scattering. Acoustic signals suffer from low propagation speed (~1500 m/s), but the transmission range is better than RF signals. Also, you don't need large antennas when transmitting low frequency acoustic signals, which is the case for RF signals. The bandwidth can be increased by using relay-assisted systems.
– BlackMath
3 hours ago
1
sonobuoys convert sound to rf.
– Stanley Pawlukiewicz
2 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
up vote
1
down vote
Yes, actually sound waves are better than RF signal in underwater, because of the low frequency requirement. We don't covert sound waves to radio signals. The transceiver in this case is called transducer.
New contributor
but is the best method?
– Muze
5 hours ago
Yes, because RF signals have high path loss in underwater, and low frequency signals mean very large antennas, which require more space and more power.
– BlackMath
4 hours ago
I up voted you could you tell me what other than sound or RF option is there to transmit under water?
– Muze
4 hours ago
1
@Muze You have basically three options in underwater: RF signals, acoustic signals, and optical signals. RF signals suffer from large path loss, and the range of transmission is in meters. Optical signals suffer from scattering. Acoustic signals suffer from low propagation speed (~1500 m/s), but the transmission range is better than RF signals. Also, you don't need large antennas when transmitting low frequency acoustic signals, which is the case for RF signals. The bandwidth can be increased by using relay-assisted systems.
– BlackMath
3 hours ago
1
sonobuoys convert sound to rf.
– Stanley Pawlukiewicz
2 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
Yes, actually sound waves are better than RF signal in underwater, because of the low frequency requirement. We don't covert sound waves to radio signals. The transceiver in this case is called transducer.
New contributor
Yes, actually sound waves are better than RF signal in underwater, because of the low frequency requirement. We don't covert sound waves to radio signals. The transceiver in this case is called transducer.
New contributor
edited 5 hours ago
New contributor
answered 5 hours ago
BlackMath
172
172
New contributor
New contributor
but is the best method?
– Muze
5 hours ago
Yes, because RF signals have high path loss in underwater, and low frequency signals mean very large antennas, which require more space and more power.
– BlackMath
4 hours ago
I up voted you could you tell me what other than sound or RF option is there to transmit under water?
– Muze
4 hours ago
1
@Muze You have basically three options in underwater: RF signals, acoustic signals, and optical signals. RF signals suffer from large path loss, and the range of transmission is in meters. Optical signals suffer from scattering. Acoustic signals suffer from low propagation speed (~1500 m/s), but the transmission range is better than RF signals. Also, you don't need large antennas when transmitting low frequency acoustic signals, which is the case for RF signals. The bandwidth can be increased by using relay-assisted systems.
– BlackMath
3 hours ago
1
sonobuoys convert sound to rf.
– Stanley Pawlukiewicz
2 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
but is the best method?
– Muze
5 hours ago
Yes, because RF signals have high path loss in underwater, and low frequency signals mean very large antennas, which require more space and more power.
– BlackMath
4 hours ago
I up voted you could you tell me what other than sound or RF option is there to transmit under water?
– Muze
4 hours ago
1
@Muze You have basically three options in underwater: RF signals, acoustic signals, and optical signals. RF signals suffer from large path loss, and the range of transmission is in meters. Optical signals suffer from scattering. Acoustic signals suffer from low propagation speed (~1500 m/s), but the transmission range is better than RF signals. Also, you don't need large antennas when transmitting low frequency acoustic signals, which is the case for RF signals. The bandwidth can be increased by using relay-assisted systems.
– BlackMath
3 hours ago
1
sonobuoys convert sound to rf.
– Stanley Pawlukiewicz
2 hours ago
but is the best method?
– Muze
5 hours ago
but is the best method?
– Muze
5 hours ago
Yes, because RF signals have high path loss in underwater, and low frequency signals mean very large antennas, which require more space and more power.
– BlackMath
4 hours ago
Yes, because RF signals have high path loss in underwater, and low frequency signals mean very large antennas, which require more space and more power.
– BlackMath
4 hours ago
I up voted you could you tell me what other than sound or RF option is there to transmit under water?
– Muze
4 hours ago
I up voted you could you tell me what other than sound or RF option is there to transmit under water?
– Muze
4 hours ago
1
1
@Muze You have basically three options in underwater: RF signals, acoustic signals, and optical signals. RF signals suffer from large path loss, and the range of transmission is in meters. Optical signals suffer from scattering. Acoustic signals suffer from low propagation speed (~1500 m/s), but the transmission range is better than RF signals. Also, you don't need large antennas when transmitting low frequency acoustic signals, which is the case for RF signals. The bandwidth can be increased by using relay-assisted systems.
– BlackMath
3 hours ago
@Muze You have basically three options in underwater: RF signals, acoustic signals, and optical signals. RF signals suffer from large path loss, and the range of transmission is in meters. Optical signals suffer from scattering. Acoustic signals suffer from low propagation speed (~1500 m/s), but the transmission range is better than RF signals. Also, you don't need large antennas when transmitting low frequency acoustic signals, which is the case for RF signals. The bandwidth can be increased by using relay-assisted systems.
– BlackMath
3 hours ago
1
1
sonobuoys convert sound to rf.
– Stanley Pawlukiewicz
2 hours ago
sonobuoys convert sound to rf.
– Stanley Pawlukiewicz
2 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
up vote
1
down vote
to be picky, RF is strongly attenuated is salt water.
Fresh water is much less attenuated. During WW2 submerged submarines could use their radios in Lake Michigan.
Very low frequency RF communications is possible in salt water. The bit rate is very low.
Fiber optic cables work well too.
Acoustics tend to be attenuated as well.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
to be picky, RF is strongly attenuated is salt water.
Fresh water is much less attenuated. During WW2 submerged submarines could use their radios in Lake Michigan.
Very low frequency RF communications is possible in salt water. The bit rate is very low.
Fiber optic cables work well too.
Acoustics tend to be attenuated as well.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
to be picky, RF is strongly attenuated is salt water.
Fresh water is much less attenuated. During WW2 submerged submarines could use their radios in Lake Michigan.
Very low frequency RF communications is possible in salt water. The bit rate is very low.
Fiber optic cables work well too.
Acoustics tend to be attenuated as well.
to be picky, RF is strongly attenuated is salt water.
Fresh water is much less attenuated. During WW2 submerged submarines could use their radios in Lake Michigan.
Very low frequency RF communications is possible in salt water. The bit rate is very low.
Fiber optic cables work well too.
Acoustics tend to be attenuated as well.
edited 3 hours ago
answered 3 hours ago
Stanley Pawlukiewicz
5,7882421
5,7882421
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
This is incredibly common in aquatic robotics. There are multiple uses for underwater acoustic communication such as data transfer, localization to a surface vessel, mission control etc.
New contributor
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
This is incredibly common in aquatic robotics. There are multiple uses for underwater acoustic communication such as data transfer, localization to a surface vessel, mission control etc.
New contributor
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
This is incredibly common in aquatic robotics. There are multiple uses for underwater acoustic communication such as data transfer, localization to a surface vessel, mission control etc.
New contributor
This is incredibly common in aquatic robotics. There are multiple uses for underwater acoustic communication such as data transfer, localization to a surface vessel, mission control etc.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 2 hours ago
Octopuscabbage
111
111
New contributor
New contributor
add a comment |
add a comment |
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1
This might be a better fit for electronics.stackexchange.com, fyi
– Carlos Danger
5 hours ago
1
the way to do that is flag your post as being in need of moderator attention
– Carlos Danger
5 hours ago
Migration failed because Muze is currently suspended from the Electronics SE site. Reopening here.
– Peter K.♦
4 hours ago