Why isn't airport relocation done gradually?












14












$begingroup$


Recently Istanbul airport (IST) was relocated from Atatürk over 2 days. Munich Franz Josef Strauss (MUC) was also moved overnight from Munich Riem. Doesn't it cause chaos, since most employees are new to the place and equipment, work procedures are not well established? E.g. some people do not have badges with correct security clearance.



Why not do it gradually over longer time? Move airline by airline -- smaller first, bigger later.










share|improve this question









New contributor




Kamil Aliyev is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    @Kamil Aliyev, what are you talking about? What moved?
    $endgroup$
    – CrossRoads
    yesterday






  • 4




    $begingroup$
    @CrossRoads Munich-Riem Airport closed on 16 May 1992 and the current Munich Airport opened the next day. Istanbul Atatürk Airport ceased commercial passenger flights on 6 April this year and they moved to Istanbul Airport.
    $endgroup$
    – David Richerby
    yesterday






  • 9




    $begingroup$
    It would greatly help if you would use recognizable geographic names for the airports, instead of 3-letter codes.
    $endgroup$
    – jamesqf
    21 hours ago






  • 11




    $begingroup$
    @jamesqf airports often have several names, and are often commonly referred to by something other than their official name. additionally, cities often have several airports, so while "munich airport" might be unambiguous, "milan airport" is not. on the other hand, MUC is completely unambiguous. it may require a 10-second lookup for people who don't spend a lot of time thinking about / discussing / talking about airports, but on the other hand, this is the aviation stack exchange.
    $endgroup$
    – jbg
    8 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @jbg Nobody should have to Google just to find out what the question is about. The IATA code is great for disambiguation and should be included for that reason, but we should never rely on just a code, especially in questions like this one that are likely to be of interest to non-specialists. Quite apart from anything else, codes are easy to typo in ways that completely change the meaning of the question. Write "Munixh" and it's obvious what you meant; write "MUX" and suddenly you're in Pakistan and wasting everybody's time.
    $endgroup$
    – David Richerby
    3 hours ago
















14












$begingroup$


Recently Istanbul airport (IST) was relocated from Atatürk over 2 days. Munich Franz Josef Strauss (MUC) was also moved overnight from Munich Riem. Doesn't it cause chaos, since most employees are new to the place and equipment, work procedures are not well established? E.g. some people do not have badges with correct security clearance.



Why not do it gradually over longer time? Move airline by airline -- smaller first, bigger later.










share|improve this question









New contributor




Kamil Aliyev is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    @Kamil Aliyev, what are you talking about? What moved?
    $endgroup$
    – CrossRoads
    yesterday






  • 4




    $begingroup$
    @CrossRoads Munich-Riem Airport closed on 16 May 1992 and the current Munich Airport opened the next day. Istanbul Atatürk Airport ceased commercial passenger flights on 6 April this year and they moved to Istanbul Airport.
    $endgroup$
    – David Richerby
    yesterday






  • 9




    $begingroup$
    It would greatly help if you would use recognizable geographic names for the airports, instead of 3-letter codes.
    $endgroup$
    – jamesqf
    21 hours ago






  • 11




    $begingroup$
    @jamesqf airports often have several names, and are often commonly referred to by something other than their official name. additionally, cities often have several airports, so while "munich airport" might be unambiguous, "milan airport" is not. on the other hand, MUC is completely unambiguous. it may require a 10-second lookup for people who don't spend a lot of time thinking about / discussing / talking about airports, but on the other hand, this is the aviation stack exchange.
    $endgroup$
    – jbg
    8 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @jbg Nobody should have to Google just to find out what the question is about. The IATA code is great for disambiguation and should be included for that reason, but we should never rely on just a code, especially in questions like this one that are likely to be of interest to non-specialists. Quite apart from anything else, codes are easy to typo in ways that completely change the meaning of the question. Write "Munixh" and it's obvious what you meant; write "MUX" and suddenly you're in Pakistan and wasting everybody's time.
    $endgroup$
    – David Richerby
    3 hours ago














14












14








14





$begingroup$


Recently Istanbul airport (IST) was relocated from Atatürk over 2 days. Munich Franz Josef Strauss (MUC) was also moved overnight from Munich Riem. Doesn't it cause chaos, since most employees are new to the place and equipment, work procedures are not well established? E.g. some people do not have badges with correct security clearance.



Why not do it gradually over longer time? Move airline by airline -- smaller first, bigger later.










share|improve this question









New contributor




Kamil Aliyev is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$




Recently Istanbul airport (IST) was relocated from Atatürk over 2 days. Munich Franz Josef Strauss (MUC) was also moved overnight from Munich Riem. Doesn't it cause chaos, since most employees are new to the place and equipment, work procedures are not well established? E.g. some people do not have badges with correct security clearance.



Why not do it gradually over longer time? Move airline by airline -- smaller first, bigger later.







airport airport-operations






share|improve this question









New contributor




Kamil Aliyev is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question









New contributor




Kamil Aliyev is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 10 mins ago









rob74

1072




1072






New contributor




Kamil Aliyev is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









asked yesterday









Kamil AliyevKamil Aliyev

7613




7613




New contributor




Kamil Aliyev is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





Kamil Aliyev is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






Kamil Aliyev is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












  • $begingroup$
    @Kamil Aliyev, what are you talking about? What moved?
    $endgroup$
    – CrossRoads
    yesterday






  • 4




    $begingroup$
    @CrossRoads Munich-Riem Airport closed on 16 May 1992 and the current Munich Airport opened the next day. Istanbul Atatürk Airport ceased commercial passenger flights on 6 April this year and they moved to Istanbul Airport.
    $endgroup$
    – David Richerby
    yesterday






  • 9




    $begingroup$
    It would greatly help if you would use recognizable geographic names for the airports, instead of 3-letter codes.
    $endgroup$
    – jamesqf
    21 hours ago






  • 11




    $begingroup$
    @jamesqf airports often have several names, and are often commonly referred to by something other than their official name. additionally, cities often have several airports, so while "munich airport" might be unambiguous, "milan airport" is not. on the other hand, MUC is completely unambiguous. it may require a 10-second lookup for people who don't spend a lot of time thinking about / discussing / talking about airports, but on the other hand, this is the aviation stack exchange.
    $endgroup$
    – jbg
    8 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @jbg Nobody should have to Google just to find out what the question is about. The IATA code is great for disambiguation and should be included for that reason, but we should never rely on just a code, especially in questions like this one that are likely to be of interest to non-specialists. Quite apart from anything else, codes are easy to typo in ways that completely change the meaning of the question. Write "Munixh" and it's obvious what you meant; write "MUX" and suddenly you're in Pakistan and wasting everybody's time.
    $endgroup$
    – David Richerby
    3 hours ago


















  • $begingroup$
    @Kamil Aliyev, what are you talking about? What moved?
    $endgroup$
    – CrossRoads
    yesterday






  • 4




    $begingroup$
    @CrossRoads Munich-Riem Airport closed on 16 May 1992 and the current Munich Airport opened the next day. Istanbul Atatürk Airport ceased commercial passenger flights on 6 April this year and they moved to Istanbul Airport.
    $endgroup$
    – David Richerby
    yesterday






  • 9




    $begingroup$
    It would greatly help if you would use recognizable geographic names for the airports, instead of 3-letter codes.
    $endgroup$
    – jamesqf
    21 hours ago






  • 11




    $begingroup$
    @jamesqf airports often have several names, and are often commonly referred to by something other than their official name. additionally, cities often have several airports, so while "munich airport" might be unambiguous, "milan airport" is not. on the other hand, MUC is completely unambiguous. it may require a 10-second lookup for people who don't spend a lot of time thinking about / discussing / talking about airports, but on the other hand, this is the aviation stack exchange.
    $endgroup$
    – jbg
    8 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @jbg Nobody should have to Google just to find out what the question is about. The IATA code is great for disambiguation and should be included for that reason, but we should never rely on just a code, especially in questions like this one that are likely to be of interest to non-specialists. Quite apart from anything else, codes are easy to typo in ways that completely change the meaning of the question. Write "Munixh" and it's obvious what you meant; write "MUX" and suddenly you're in Pakistan and wasting everybody's time.
    $endgroup$
    – David Richerby
    3 hours ago
















$begingroup$
@Kamil Aliyev, what are you talking about? What moved?
$endgroup$
– CrossRoads
yesterday




$begingroup$
@Kamil Aliyev, what are you talking about? What moved?
$endgroup$
– CrossRoads
yesterday




4




4




$begingroup$
@CrossRoads Munich-Riem Airport closed on 16 May 1992 and the current Munich Airport opened the next day. Istanbul Atatürk Airport ceased commercial passenger flights on 6 April this year and they moved to Istanbul Airport.
$endgroup$
– David Richerby
yesterday




$begingroup$
@CrossRoads Munich-Riem Airport closed on 16 May 1992 and the current Munich Airport opened the next day. Istanbul Atatürk Airport ceased commercial passenger flights on 6 April this year and they moved to Istanbul Airport.
$endgroup$
– David Richerby
yesterday




9




9




$begingroup$
It would greatly help if you would use recognizable geographic names for the airports, instead of 3-letter codes.
$endgroup$
– jamesqf
21 hours ago




$begingroup$
It would greatly help if you would use recognizable geographic names for the airports, instead of 3-letter codes.
$endgroup$
– jamesqf
21 hours ago




11




11




$begingroup$
@jamesqf airports often have several names, and are often commonly referred to by something other than their official name. additionally, cities often have several airports, so while "munich airport" might be unambiguous, "milan airport" is not. on the other hand, MUC is completely unambiguous. it may require a 10-second lookup for people who don't spend a lot of time thinking about / discussing / talking about airports, but on the other hand, this is the aviation stack exchange.
$endgroup$
– jbg
8 hours ago




$begingroup$
@jamesqf airports often have several names, and are often commonly referred to by something other than their official name. additionally, cities often have several airports, so while "munich airport" might be unambiguous, "milan airport" is not. on the other hand, MUC is completely unambiguous. it may require a 10-second lookup for people who don't spend a lot of time thinking about / discussing / talking about airports, but on the other hand, this is the aviation stack exchange.
$endgroup$
– jbg
8 hours ago




1




1




$begingroup$
@jbg Nobody should have to Google just to find out what the question is about. The IATA code is great for disambiguation and should be included for that reason, but we should never rely on just a code, especially in questions like this one that are likely to be of interest to non-specialists. Quite apart from anything else, codes are easy to typo in ways that completely change the meaning of the question. Write "Munixh" and it's obvious what you meant; write "MUX" and suddenly you're in Pakistan and wasting everybody's time.
$endgroup$
– David Richerby
3 hours ago




$begingroup$
@jbg Nobody should have to Google just to find out what the question is about. The IATA code is great for disambiguation and should be included for that reason, but we should never rely on just a code, especially in questions like this one that are likely to be of interest to non-specialists. Quite apart from anything else, codes are easy to typo in ways that completely change the meaning of the question. Write "Munixh" and it's obvious what you meant; write "MUX" and suddenly you're in Pakistan and wasting everybody's time.
$endgroup$
– David Richerby
3 hours ago










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















28












$begingroup$

Gradual relocation essentially mean having to staff and equip nearly two full airports during the transition period. It is also annoying for the travelers that want to transfer planes and need to relocate to the other airport. They would then need to get transported to or from the new location and through security again unless a small short hop flight is established during the transition. In IST's case it's 35 km distance between the old and new location.



Having two busy airports close to each other is also a bigger challenge for air traffic control than a really busy one and a calm one.



The solution to the issues you mention can be solved by thorough preparation. Like making sure all the old badges work (or having the new ones passed out as they come in for their first day at the new location), make sure everyone knows where they need to report for work in the new location. Perhaps having some extra trouble shooters on hand to fix teething issues.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Incidentally, the distance between the old and new Munich airports is also ~35 km (by road).
    $endgroup$
    – rob74
    1 hour ago



















17












$begingroup$

Moving airline by airline doesn't help that much:




  • You still have the same chaos, just on a per-airline basis.

  • The airports you mention are dominated by large carriers that have turned them into hubs (Turkish Airlines and Lufthansa). Even if you move all the other airlines one by one, you still have much of the pain of the big move when you move the largest airline.


And it has disadvantages:




  • Connections: A large percentage of traffic through these hub airports are connecting passengers, and thanks to airline alliances and partnerships, many are connecting between flights from different airlines. Very few passengers (and even fewer high-paying business travelers) will willingly break their journey to go for a drive across a famously traffic-congested city to change airports. Customers will abandon your airport and fly other routes while this is going on.

  • Equipment: When Denver International Airport moved, there was a massive overnight caravan "of more than 10,000 baggage carts, plane tugs, fire engines, catering trucks, de-icing machines and untold truckloads of tickets, tags and gift shop sundries" to the new airport. A similar operation occurred in Istanbul. If both airports must operate simultaneously, a fleet of equipment must be maintained at both airports during the overlap period. Much of this equipment is expensive, long-lasting, and will be difficult to sell or dispose of after the old airport is closed down.

  • Staff: There's not an exact linear relationship of airport staffing to the number of flights. Many staff may work for contracted ground handling companies and serve flights from more than one airline. They can't be in two places at once.


This is still done to a limited extent though. Turkish Airlines operated a few flights out of New Istanbul Airport for several months prior to the big move, which allowed them to test systems and familiarize staff with the new airport. Some of these disadvantages can be mitigated by limiting the number of flights and choosing them strategically.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    +1 for the connections point. Passengers don't like having to make their way to the other side of the city because their inbound flight went to one airport, but their outbound flight moved to another.
    $endgroup$
    – reirab
    15 hours ago



















13












$begingroup$

Gradually moving between airports is a living nightmare for connecting travelers.



Exactly that was done at Montreal Mirabel airport, a fabulous, spacious new replacement airport for Montreal Dorval (Trudeau). Montreal used to be Canada's main international hub. International flights were banned from the old airport, as incentive for airlines to move all operations to Mirabel. But they lacked the political strength to fully close the old airport, and never finished the high-speed-rail connection (or even highways) to Mirabel. Passengers needed to take an hourlong bus ride and re-clear security. This was so irksome that instead of consolidating at Mirabel, operators simply sent their international flights to Toronto instead, making it Canada's main hub.



They lost so many flights that Montreal didn't need two airports anymore, and they consolidated back at Trudeau. Mirabel's main terminal was scrapped and it's a race track now. A few cargo operations remain.





Then you have the case of Kai Tak, where they "threw the switch" properly, but due to teething pains, threw the cargo operations back to Kai Tak for a short while.



Then there is Berlin.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    On the other hand, some large cities get along just fine with 2 or even 3 major airports with one being primary for long-haul flights and the other being mostly domestic and regional flights. Off the top of my head, NYC, London, Chicago, Shanghai, Tokyo, Paris, Dallas, Houston, Washington, D.C., and Bangkok all work that way. Granted, the NYC airports aren't exactly an example of efficiency, but that's because each of them lacks sufficient space to build more runways, not because of failing to combine operations.
    $endgroup$
    – reirab
    15 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @reirab Or Los Angeles, with 5. Yeah, NYC seriously needs to do the Mirabel thing.
    $endgroup$
    – Harper
    15 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    @reirab JKF is primarily international flights while Newark and LaGuardia are primarily domestic, but they're not split cleanly like Mirabel/Dorval were. I can fly IND->EWR->LHR, as opposed to IND->EWR, bus/train to JFK, then JFK->LHR. That would be a nightmare and nobody would use JFK if they could possibly avoid it.
    $endgroup$
    – FreeMan
    1 hour ago



















2












$begingroup$

My experience is when KUL moved from Subang (now SZB) to the new KL Intl Airport (KLIA).



The moving date was declared way in advance, I seem to remember the date was locked more than 6 months before, and a lot of airlines rescheduled their ops especially the nightstopping aircraft. Obviously Malaysia Airlines had to ferry a bunch of planes over but its a 10minute hop and done in the early hours so not much of an issue. Some of the ground equipment was ferried over earlier in the day (of the last day of Subang operations) but everything else was moved over once the last flight of the day was completed. I'm talking motorised stairs, K-loaders, belt-loaders, tractors, trolleys, dollies the works. It was quite a convoy of flat loaders. Stuff that could be driven on public roads were given temporary permits so you saw motorised steps and water/toilet trucks on the public highways!



The biggest change was moving from a host (MH) checkin environment to a homegrown common-use system which was integrated with the Baggage Handling System (BHS). The first days baggage handling was chaos with a lot of bags not making their flights.



A lot of items can't be duplicated not only in terms of equipment but also in manpower and its easier to make a clean cut and manage the problems for a 24hour period than drawing the pain over a period of weeks.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$














    Your Answer





    StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
    return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
    StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
    StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
    });
    });
    }, "mathjax-editing");

    StackExchange.ready(function() {
    var channelOptions = {
    tags: "".split(" "),
    id: "528"
    };
    initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

    StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
    // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
    if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
    StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
    createEditor();
    });
    }
    else {
    createEditor();
    }
    });

    function createEditor() {
    StackExchange.prepareEditor({
    heartbeatType: 'answer',
    autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
    convertImagesToLinks: false,
    noModals: true,
    showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
    reputationToPostImages: null,
    bindNavPrevention: true,
    postfix: "",
    imageUploader: {
    brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
    contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
    allowUrls: true
    },
    noCode: true, onDemand: true,
    discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
    ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
    });


    }
    });






    Kamil Aliyev is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










    draft saved

    draft discarded


















    StackExchange.ready(
    function () {
    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2faviation.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f62154%2fwhy-isnt-airport-relocation-done-gradually%23new-answer', 'question_page');
    }
    );

    Post as a guest















    Required, but never shown

























    4 Answers
    4






    active

    oldest

    votes








    4 Answers
    4






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    28












    $begingroup$

    Gradual relocation essentially mean having to staff and equip nearly two full airports during the transition period. It is also annoying for the travelers that want to transfer planes and need to relocate to the other airport. They would then need to get transported to or from the new location and through security again unless a small short hop flight is established during the transition. In IST's case it's 35 km distance between the old and new location.



    Having two busy airports close to each other is also a bigger challenge for air traffic control than a really busy one and a calm one.



    The solution to the issues you mention can be solved by thorough preparation. Like making sure all the old badges work (or having the new ones passed out as they come in for their first day at the new location), make sure everyone knows where they need to report for work in the new location. Perhaps having some extra trouble shooters on hand to fix teething issues.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      Incidentally, the distance between the old and new Munich airports is also ~35 km (by road).
      $endgroup$
      – rob74
      1 hour ago
















    28












    $begingroup$

    Gradual relocation essentially mean having to staff and equip nearly two full airports during the transition period. It is also annoying for the travelers that want to transfer planes and need to relocate to the other airport. They would then need to get transported to or from the new location and through security again unless a small short hop flight is established during the transition. In IST's case it's 35 km distance between the old and new location.



    Having two busy airports close to each other is also a bigger challenge for air traffic control than a really busy one and a calm one.



    The solution to the issues you mention can be solved by thorough preparation. Like making sure all the old badges work (or having the new ones passed out as they come in for their first day at the new location), make sure everyone knows where they need to report for work in the new location. Perhaps having some extra trouble shooters on hand to fix teething issues.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      Incidentally, the distance between the old and new Munich airports is also ~35 km (by road).
      $endgroup$
      – rob74
      1 hour ago














    28












    28








    28





    $begingroup$

    Gradual relocation essentially mean having to staff and equip nearly two full airports during the transition period. It is also annoying for the travelers that want to transfer planes and need to relocate to the other airport. They would then need to get transported to or from the new location and through security again unless a small short hop flight is established during the transition. In IST's case it's 35 km distance between the old and new location.



    Having two busy airports close to each other is also a bigger challenge for air traffic control than a really busy one and a calm one.



    The solution to the issues you mention can be solved by thorough preparation. Like making sure all the old badges work (or having the new ones passed out as they come in for their first day at the new location), make sure everyone knows where they need to report for work in the new location. Perhaps having some extra trouble shooters on hand to fix teething issues.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$



    Gradual relocation essentially mean having to staff and equip nearly two full airports during the transition period. It is also annoying for the travelers that want to transfer planes and need to relocate to the other airport. They would then need to get transported to or from the new location and through security again unless a small short hop flight is established during the transition. In IST's case it's 35 km distance between the old and new location.



    Having two busy airports close to each other is also a bigger challenge for air traffic control than a really busy one and a calm one.



    The solution to the issues you mention can be solved by thorough preparation. Like making sure all the old badges work (or having the new ones passed out as they come in for their first day at the new location), make sure everyone knows where they need to report for work in the new location. Perhaps having some extra trouble shooters on hand to fix teething issues.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited 18 hours ago









    Loong

    267214




    267214










    answered yesterday









    ratchet freakratchet freak

    24.3k468131




    24.3k468131












    • $begingroup$
      Incidentally, the distance between the old and new Munich airports is also ~35 km (by road).
      $endgroup$
      – rob74
      1 hour ago


















    • $begingroup$
      Incidentally, the distance between the old and new Munich airports is also ~35 km (by road).
      $endgroup$
      – rob74
      1 hour ago
















    $begingroup$
    Incidentally, the distance between the old and new Munich airports is also ~35 km (by road).
    $endgroup$
    – rob74
    1 hour ago




    $begingroup$
    Incidentally, the distance between the old and new Munich airports is also ~35 km (by road).
    $endgroup$
    – rob74
    1 hour ago











    17












    $begingroup$

    Moving airline by airline doesn't help that much:




    • You still have the same chaos, just on a per-airline basis.

    • The airports you mention are dominated by large carriers that have turned them into hubs (Turkish Airlines and Lufthansa). Even if you move all the other airlines one by one, you still have much of the pain of the big move when you move the largest airline.


    And it has disadvantages:




    • Connections: A large percentage of traffic through these hub airports are connecting passengers, and thanks to airline alliances and partnerships, many are connecting between flights from different airlines. Very few passengers (and even fewer high-paying business travelers) will willingly break their journey to go for a drive across a famously traffic-congested city to change airports. Customers will abandon your airport and fly other routes while this is going on.

    • Equipment: When Denver International Airport moved, there was a massive overnight caravan "of more than 10,000 baggage carts, plane tugs, fire engines, catering trucks, de-icing machines and untold truckloads of tickets, tags and gift shop sundries" to the new airport. A similar operation occurred in Istanbul. If both airports must operate simultaneously, a fleet of equipment must be maintained at both airports during the overlap period. Much of this equipment is expensive, long-lasting, and will be difficult to sell or dispose of after the old airport is closed down.

    • Staff: There's not an exact linear relationship of airport staffing to the number of flights. Many staff may work for contracted ground handling companies and serve flights from more than one airline. They can't be in two places at once.


    This is still done to a limited extent though. Turkish Airlines operated a few flights out of New Istanbul Airport for several months prior to the big move, which allowed them to test systems and familiarize staff with the new airport. Some of these disadvantages can be mitigated by limiting the number of flights and choosing them strategically.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      +1 for the connections point. Passengers don't like having to make their way to the other side of the city because their inbound flight went to one airport, but their outbound flight moved to another.
      $endgroup$
      – reirab
      15 hours ago
















    17












    $begingroup$

    Moving airline by airline doesn't help that much:




    • You still have the same chaos, just on a per-airline basis.

    • The airports you mention are dominated by large carriers that have turned them into hubs (Turkish Airlines and Lufthansa). Even if you move all the other airlines one by one, you still have much of the pain of the big move when you move the largest airline.


    And it has disadvantages:




    • Connections: A large percentage of traffic through these hub airports are connecting passengers, and thanks to airline alliances and partnerships, many are connecting between flights from different airlines. Very few passengers (and even fewer high-paying business travelers) will willingly break their journey to go for a drive across a famously traffic-congested city to change airports. Customers will abandon your airport and fly other routes while this is going on.

    • Equipment: When Denver International Airport moved, there was a massive overnight caravan "of more than 10,000 baggage carts, plane tugs, fire engines, catering trucks, de-icing machines and untold truckloads of tickets, tags and gift shop sundries" to the new airport. A similar operation occurred in Istanbul. If both airports must operate simultaneously, a fleet of equipment must be maintained at both airports during the overlap period. Much of this equipment is expensive, long-lasting, and will be difficult to sell or dispose of after the old airport is closed down.

    • Staff: There's not an exact linear relationship of airport staffing to the number of flights. Many staff may work for contracted ground handling companies and serve flights from more than one airline. They can't be in two places at once.


    This is still done to a limited extent though. Turkish Airlines operated a few flights out of New Istanbul Airport for several months prior to the big move, which allowed them to test systems and familiarize staff with the new airport. Some of these disadvantages can be mitigated by limiting the number of flights and choosing them strategically.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      +1 for the connections point. Passengers don't like having to make their way to the other side of the city because their inbound flight went to one airport, but their outbound flight moved to another.
      $endgroup$
      – reirab
      15 hours ago














    17












    17








    17





    $begingroup$

    Moving airline by airline doesn't help that much:




    • You still have the same chaos, just on a per-airline basis.

    • The airports you mention are dominated by large carriers that have turned them into hubs (Turkish Airlines and Lufthansa). Even if you move all the other airlines one by one, you still have much of the pain of the big move when you move the largest airline.


    And it has disadvantages:




    • Connections: A large percentage of traffic through these hub airports are connecting passengers, and thanks to airline alliances and partnerships, many are connecting between flights from different airlines. Very few passengers (and even fewer high-paying business travelers) will willingly break their journey to go for a drive across a famously traffic-congested city to change airports. Customers will abandon your airport and fly other routes while this is going on.

    • Equipment: When Denver International Airport moved, there was a massive overnight caravan "of more than 10,000 baggage carts, plane tugs, fire engines, catering trucks, de-icing machines and untold truckloads of tickets, tags and gift shop sundries" to the new airport. A similar operation occurred in Istanbul. If both airports must operate simultaneously, a fleet of equipment must be maintained at both airports during the overlap period. Much of this equipment is expensive, long-lasting, and will be difficult to sell or dispose of after the old airport is closed down.

    • Staff: There's not an exact linear relationship of airport staffing to the number of flights. Many staff may work for contracted ground handling companies and serve flights from more than one airline. They can't be in two places at once.


    This is still done to a limited extent though. Turkish Airlines operated a few flights out of New Istanbul Airport for several months prior to the big move, which allowed them to test systems and familiarize staff with the new airport. Some of these disadvantages can be mitigated by limiting the number of flights and choosing them strategically.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$



    Moving airline by airline doesn't help that much:




    • You still have the same chaos, just on a per-airline basis.

    • The airports you mention are dominated by large carriers that have turned them into hubs (Turkish Airlines and Lufthansa). Even if you move all the other airlines one by one, you still have much of the pain of the big move when you move the largest airline.


    And it has disadvantages:




    • Connections: A large percentage of traffic through these hub airports are connecting passengers, and thanks to airline alliances and partnerships, many are connecting between flights from different airlines. Very few passengers (and even fewer high-paying business travelers) will willingly break their journey to go for a drive across a famously traffic-congested city to change airports. Customers will abandon your airport and fly other routes while this is going on.

    • Equipment: When Denver International Airport moved, there was a massive overnight caravan "of more than 10,000 baggage carts, plane tugs, fire engines, catering trucks, de-icing machines and untold truckloads of tickets, tags and gift shop sundries" to the new airport. A similar operation occurred in Istanbul. If both airports must operate simultaneously, a fleet of equipment must be maintained at both airports during the overlap period. Much of this equipment is expensive, long-lasting, and will be difficult to sell or dispose of after the old airport is closed down.

    • Staff: There's not an exact linear relationship of airport staffing to the number of flights. Many staff may work for contracted ground handling companies and serve flights from more than one airline. They can't be in two places at once.


    This is still done to a limited extent though. Turkish Airlines operated a few flights out of New Istanbul Airport for several months prior to the big move, which allowed them to test systems and familiarize staff with the new airport. Some of these disadvantages can be mitigated by limiting the number of flights and choosing them strategically.







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered 20 hours ago









    Zach LiptonZach Lipton

    6,61412643




    6,61412643












    • $begingroup$
      +1 for the connections point. Passengers don't like having to make their way to the other side of the city because their inbound flight went to one airport, but their outbound flight moved to another.
      $endgroup$
      – reirab
      15 hours ago


















    • $begingroup$
      +1 for the connections point. Passengers don't like having to make their way to the other side of the city because their inbound flight went to one airport, but their outbound flight moved to another.
      $endgroup$
      – reirab
      15 hours ago
















    $begingroup$
    +1 for the connections point. Passengers don't like having to make their way to the other side of the city because their inbound flight went to one airport, but their outbound flight moved to another.
    $endgroup$
    – reirab
    15 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    +1 for the connections point. Passengers don't like having to make their way to the other side of the city because their inbound flight went to one airport, but their outbound flight moved to another.
    $endgroup$
    – reirab
    15 hours ago











    13












    $begingroup$

    Gradually moving between airports is a living nightmare for connecting travelers.



    Exactly that was done at Montreal Mirabel airport, a fabulous, spacious new replacement airport for Montreal Dorval (Trudeau). Montreal used to be Canada's main international hub. International flights were banned from the old airport, as incentive for airlines to move all operations to Mirabel. But they lacked the political strength to fully close the old airport, and never finished the high-speed-rail connection (or even highways) to Mirabel. Passengers needed to take an hourlong bus ride and re-clear security. This was so irksome that instead of consolidating at Mirabel, operators simply sent their international flights to Toronto instead, making it Canada's main hub.



    They lost so many flights that Montreal didn't need two airports anymore, and they consolidated back at Trudeau. Mirabel's main terminal was scrapped and it's a race track now. A few cargo operations remain.





    Then you have the case of Kai Tak, where they "threw the switch" properly, but due to teething pains, threw the cargo operations back to Kai Tak for a short while.



    Then there is Berlin.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      On the other hand, some large cities get along just fine with 2 or even 3 major airports with one being primary for long-haul flights and the other being mostly domestic and regional flights. Off the top of my head, NYC, London, Chicago, Shanghai, Tokyo, Paris, Dallas, Houston, Washington, D.C., and Bangkok all work that way. Granted, the NYC airports aren't exactly an example of efficiency, but that's because each of them lacks sufficient space to build more runways, not because of failing to combine operations.
      $endgroup$
      – reirab
      15 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @reirab Or Los Angeles, with 5. Yeah, NYC seriously needs to do the Mirabel thing.
      $endgroup$
      – Harper
      15 hours ago












    • $begingroup$
      @reirab JKF is primarily international flights while Newark and LaGuardia are primarily domestic, but they're not split cleanly like Mirabel/Dorval were. I can fly IND->EWR->LHR, as opposed to IND->EWR, bus/train to JFK, then JFK->LHR. That would be a nightmare and nobody would use JFK if they could possibly avoid it.
      $endgroup$
      – FreeMan
      1 hour ago
















    13












    $begingroup$

    Gradually moving between airports is a living nightmare for connecting travelers.



    Exactly that was done at Montreal Mirabel airport, a fabulous, spacious new replacement airport for Montreal Dorval (Trudeau). Montreal used to be Canada's main international hub. International flights were banned from the old airport, as incentive for airlines to move all operations to Mirabel. But they lacked the political strength to fully close the old airport, and never finished the high-speed-rail connection (or even highways) to Mirabel. Passengers needed to take an hourlong bus ride and re-clear security. This was so irksome that instead of consolidating at Mirabel, operators simply sent their international flights to Toronto instead, making it Canada's main hub.



    They lost so many flights that Montreal didn't need two airports anymore, and they consolidated back at Trudeau. Mirabel's main terminal was scrapped and it's a race track now. A few cargo operations remain.





    Then you have the case of Kai Tak, where they "threw the switch" properly, but due to teething pains, threw the cargo operations back to Kai Tak for a short while.



    Then there is Berlin.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      On the other hand, some large cities get along just fine with 2 or even 3 major airports with one being primary for long-haul flights and the other being mostly domestic and regional flights. Off the top of my head, NYC, London, Chicago, Shanghai, Tokyo, Paris, Dallas, Houston, Washington, D.C., and Bangkok all work that way. Granted, the NYC airports aren't exactly an example of efficiency, but that's because each of them lacks sufficient space to build more runways, not because of failing to combine operations.
      $endgroup$
      – reirab
      15 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @reirab Or Los Angeles, with 5. Yeah, NYC seriously needs to do the Mirabel thing.
      $endgroup$
      – Harper
      15 hours ago












    • $begingroup$
      @reirab JKF is primarily international flights while Newark and LaGuardia are primarily domestic, but they're not split cleanly like Mirabel/Dorval were. I can fly IND->EWR->LHR, as opposed to IND->EWR, bus/train to JFK, then JFK->LHR. That would be a nightmare and nobody would use JFK if they could possibly avoid it.
      $endgroup$
      – FreeMan
      1 hour ago














    13












    13








    13





    $begingroup$

    Gradually moving between airports is a living nightmare for connecting travelers.



    Exactly that was done at Montreal Mirabel airport, a fabulous, spacious new replacement airport for Montreal Dorval (Trudeau). Montreal used to be Canada's main international hub. International flights were banned from the old airport, as incentive for airlines to move all operations to Mirabel. But they lacked the political strength to fully close the old airport, and never finished the high-speed-rail connection (or even highways) to Mirabel. Passengers needed to take an hourlong bus ride and re-clear security. This was so irksome that instead of consolidating at Mirabel, operators simply sent their international flights to Toronto instead, making it Canada's main hub.



    They lost so many flights that Montreal didn't need two airports anymore, and they consolidated back at Trudeau. Mirabel's main terminal was scrapped and it's a race track now. A few cargo operations remain.





    Then you have the case of Kai Tak, where they "threw the switch" properly, but due to teething pains, threw the cargo operations back to Kai Tak for a short while.



    Then there is Berlin.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$



    Gradually moving between airports is a living nightmare for connecting travelers.



    Exactly that was done at Montreal Mirabel airport, a fabulous, spacious new replacement airport for Montreal Dorval (Trudeau). Montreal used to be Canada's main international hub. International flights were banned from the old airport, as incentive for airlines to move all operations to Mirabel. But they lacked the political strength to fully close the old airport, and never finished the high-speed-rail connection (or even highways) to Mirabel. Passengers needed to take an hourlong bus ride and re-clear security. This was so irksome that instead of consolidating at Mirabel, operators simply sent their international flights to Toronto instead, making it Canada's main hub.



    They lost so many flights that Montreal didn't need two airports anymore, and they consolidated back at Trudeau. Mirabel's main terminal was scrapped and it's a race track now. A few cargo operations remain.





    Then you have the case of Kai Tak, where they "threw the switch" properly, but due to teething pains, threw the cargo operations back to Kai Tak for a short while.



    Then there is Berlin.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited 15 hours ago

























    answered 20 hours ago









    HarperHarper

    4,564726




    4,564726












    • $begingroup$
      On the other hand, some large cities get along just fine with 2 or even 3 major airports with one being primary for long-haul flights and the other being mostly domestic and regional flights. Off the top of my head, NYC, London, Chicago, Shanghai, Tokyo, Paris, Dallas, Houston, Washington, D.C., and Bangkok all work that way. Granted, the NYC airports aren't exactly an example of efficiency, but that's because each of them lacks sufficient space to build more runways, not because of failing to combine operations.
      $endgroup$
      – reirab
      15 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @reirab Or Los Angeles, with 5. Yeah, NYC seriously needs to do the Mirabel thing.
      $endgroup$
      – Harper
      15 hours ago












    • $begingroup$
      @reirab JKF is primarily international flights while Newark and LaGuardia are primarily domestic, but they're not split cleanly like Mirabel/Dorval were. I can fly IND->EWR->LHR, as opposed to IND->EWR, bus/train to JFK, then JFK->LHR. That would be a nightmare and nobody would use JFK if they could possibly avoid it.
      $endgroup$
      – FreeMan
      1 hour ago


















    • $begingroup$
      On the other hand, some large cities get along just fine with 2 or even 3 major airports with one being primary for long-haul flights and the other being mostly domestic and regional flights. Off the top of my head, NYC, London, Chicago, Shanghai, Tokyo, Paris, Dallas, Houston, Washington, D.C., and Bangkok all work that way. Granted, the NYC airports aren't exactly an example of efficiency, but that's because each of them lacks sufficient space to build more runways, not because of failing to combine operations.
      $endgroup$
      – reirab
      15 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @reirab Or Los Angeles, with 5. Yeah, NYC seriously needs to do the Mirabel thing.
      $endgroup$
      – Harper
      15 hours ago












    • $begingroup$
      @reirab JKF is primarily international flights while Newark and LaGuardia are primarily domestic, but they're not split cleanly like Mirabel/Dorval were. I can fly IND->EWR->LHR, as opposed to IND->EWR, bus/train to JFK, then JFK->LHR. That would be a nightmare and nobody would use JFK if they could possibly avoid it.
      $endgroup$
      – FreeMan
      1 hour ago
















    $begingroup$
    On the other hand, some large cities get along just fine with 2 or even 3 major airports with one being primary for long-haul flights and the other being mostly domestic and regional flights. Off the top of my head, NYC, London, Chicago, Shanghai, Tokyo, Paris, Dallas, Houston, Washington, D.C., and Bangkok all work that way. Granted, the NYC airports aren't exactly an example of efficiency, but that's because each of them lacks sufficient space to build more runways, not because of failing to combine operations.
    $endgroup$
    – reirab
    15 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    On the other hand, some large cities get along just fine with 2 or even 3 major airports with one being primary for long-haul flights and the other being mostly domestic and regional flights. Off the top of my head, NYC, London, Chicago, Shanghai, Tokyo, Paris, Dallas, Houston, Washington, D.C., and Bangkok all work that way. Granted, the NYC airports aren't exactly an example of efficiency, but that's because each of them lacks sufficient space to build more runways, not because of failing to combine operations.
    $endgroup$
    – reirab
    15 hours ago












    $begingroup$
    @reirab Or Los Angeles, with 5. Yeah, NYC seriously needs to do the Mirabel thing.
    $endgroup$
    – Harper
    15 hours ago






    $begingroup$
    @reirab Or Los Angeles, with 5. Yeah, NYC seriously needs to do the Mirabel thing.
    $endgroup$
    – Harper
    15 hours ago














    $begingroup$
    @reirab JKF is primarily international flights while Newark and LaGuardia are primarily domestic, but they're not split cleanly like Mirabel/Dorval were. I can fly IND->EWR->LHR, as opposed to IND->EWR, bus/train to JFK, then JFK->LHR. That would be a nightmare and nobody would use JFK if they could possibly avoid it.
    $endgroup$
    – FreeMan
    1 hour ago




    $begingroup$
    @reirab JKF is primarily international flights while Newark and LaGuardia are primarily domestic, but they're not split cleanly like Mirabel/Dorval were. I can fly IND->EWR->LHR, as opposed to IND->EWR, bus/train to JFK, then JFK->LHR. That would be a nightmare and nobody would use JFK if they could possibly avoid it.
    $endgroup$
    – FreeMan
    1 hour ago











    2












    $begingroup$

    My experience is when KUL moved from Subang (now SZB) to the new KL Intl Airport (KLIA).



    The moving date was declared way in advance, I seem to remember the date was locked more than 6 months before, and a lot of airlines rescheduled their ops especially the nightstopping aircraft. Obviously Malaysia Airlines had to ferry a bunch of planes over but its a 10minute hop and done in the early hours so not much of an issue. Some of the ground equipment was ferried over earlier in the day (of the last day of Subang operations) but everything else was moved over once the last flight of the day was completed. I'm talking motorised stairs, K-loaders, belt-loaders, tractors, trolleys, dollies the works. It was quite a convoy of flat loaders. Stuff that could be driven on public roads were given temporary permits so you saw motorised steps and water/toilet trucks on the public highways!



    The biggest change was moving from a host (MH) checkin environment to a homegrown common-use system which was integrated with the Baggage Handling System (BHS). The first days baggage handling was chaos with a lot of bags not making their flights.



    A lot of items can't be duplicated not only in terms of equipment but also in manpower and its easier to make a clean cut and manage the problems for a 24hour period than drawing the pain over a period of weeks.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$


















      2












      $begingroup$

      My experience is when KUL moved from Subang (now SZB) to the new KL Intl Airport (KLIA).



      The moving date was declared way in advance, I seem to remember the date was locked more than 6 months before, and a lot of airlines rescheduled their ops especially the nightstopping aircraft. Obviously Malaysia Airlines had to ferry a bunch of planes over but its a 10minute hop and done in the early hours so not much of an issue. Some of the ground equipment was ferried over earlier in the day (of the last day of Subang operations) but everything else was moved over once the last flight of the day was completed. I'm talking motorised stairs, K-loaders, belt-loaders, tractors, trolleys, dollies the works. It was quite a convoy of flat loaders. Stuff that could be driven on public roads were given temporary permits so you saw motorised steps and water/toilet trucks on the public highways!



      The biggest change was moving from a host (MH) checkin environment to a homegrown common-use system which was integrated with the Baggage Handling System (BHS). The first days baggage handling was chaos with a lot of bags not making their flights.



      A lot of items can't be duplicated not only in terms of equipment but also in manpower and its easier to make a clean cut and manage the problems for a 24hour period than drawing the pain over a period of weeks.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$
















        2












        2








        2





        $begingroup$

        My experience is when KUL moved from Subang (now SZB) to the new KL Intl Airport (KLIA).



        The moving date was declared way in advance, I seem to remember the date was locked more than 6 months before, and a lot of airlines rescheduled their ops especially the nightstopping aircraft. Obviously Malaysia Airlines had to ferry a bunch of planes over but its a 10minute hop and done in the early hours so not much of an issue. Some of the ground equipment was ferried over earlier in the day (of the last day of Subang operations) but everything else was moved over once the last flight of the day was completed. I'm talking motorised stairs, K-loaders, belt-loaders, tractors, trolleys, dollies the works. It was quite a convoy of flat loaders. Stuff that could be driven on public roads were given temporary permits so you saw motorised steps and water/toilet trucks on the public highways!



        The biggest change was moving from a host (MH) checkin environment to a homegrown common-use system which was integrated with the Baggage Handling System (BHS). The first days baggage handling was chaos with a lot of bags not making their flights.



        A lot of items can't be duplicated not only in terms of equipment but also in manpower and its easier to make a clean cut and manage the problems for a 24hour period than drawing the pain over a period of weeks.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$



        My experience is when KUL moved from Subang (now SZB) to the new KL Intl Airport (KLIA).



        The moving date was declared way in advance, I seem to remember the date was locked more than 6 months before, and a lot of airlines rescheduled their ops especially the nightstopping aircraft. Obviously Malaysia Airlines had to ferry a bunch of planes over but its a 10minute hop and done in the early hours so not much of an issue. Some of the ground equipment was ferried over earlier in the day (of the last day of Subang operations) but everything else was moved over once the last flight of the day was completed. I'm talking motorised stairs, K-loaders, belt-loaders, tractors, trolleys, dollies the works. It was quite a convoy of flat loaders. Stuff that could be driven on public roads were given temporary permits so you saw motorised steps and water/toilet trucks on the public highways!



        The biggest change was moving from a host (MH) checkin environment to a homegrown common-use system which was integrated with the Baggage Handling System (BHS). The first days baggage handling was chaos with a lot of bags not making their flights.



        A lot of items can't be duplicated not only in terms of equipment but also in manpower and its easier to make a clean cut and manage the problems for a 24hour period than drawing the pain over a period of weeks.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 10 hours ago









        AnilvAnilv

        3,2081012




        3,2081012






















            Kamil Aliyev is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










            draft saved

            draft discarded


















            Kamil Aliyev is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.













            Kamil Aliyev is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












            Kamil Aliyev is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
















            Thanks for contributing an answer to Aviation Stack Exchange!


            • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

            But avoid



            • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

            • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


            Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


            To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




            draft saved


            draft discarded














            StackExchange.ready(
            function () {
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2faviation.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f62154%2fwhy-isnt-airport-relocation-done-gradually%23new-answer', 'question_page');
            }
            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown





















































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown

































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown







            Popular posts from this blog

            Contact image not getting when fetch all contact list from iPhone by CNContact

            Idjassú

            count number of partitions of a set with n elements into k subsets