Can Pesach Mitzvot be performed before sunset?












4















I had an argument with a friend about when you can perform the Pesach seder mitzvot of eating a kezayit of shmurah matzah and drinking four glasses of wine (beginning with kiddush).



My friend said that you must wait until after sunset to say kiddush and eat the kezayit of matzah since these mitzvot remind us of the exodus from Mitzrayim. Therefore, these mitzvot must be performed at the time the Jews left Egypt, after sunset following the day of the 14th of Nisan.



I said that this is true, unless you choose to bring yom tov in early (earlier than sunset). I rationalized that, just as with Shabbat, once you bring in yom tov, you can perform kiddush (even if before sunset). And, when you get to the part of the seder to eat Matzah, you can also fulfill this obligation as well.



So the question is, if you choose to bring in yom tov early, do you still have to wait until sunset to start the seder and say kiddush (fulfilling the obligation of drinking the first of the four cups of wine)? Similarly, if you bring in yom tov early, do you nevertheless have to wait until sunset to eat matzah?










share|improve this question

























  • Is there a mitzvah to take Yom Tov early as there is with Shabbat?

    – Josh K
    11 hours ago






  • 1





    @JoshK it is a mitzvah to add to the holy of Yom Tov, just as Shabbat. See Yoma 81b (translation from Sefaria): And I have derived only the mitzva of adding to Yom Kippur; from where is it derived that one must also sanctify and append time before and after Festivals? The verse states: “You shall rest” (Leviticus 23:32), to teach that this rule applies even to Festivals, on which one is commanded to rest.

    – D A
    10 hours ago













  • תדה , @D A, I couldn't find a source on that

    – Josh K
    10 hours ago











  • I believe the Maharal rules that one must eat a kzayith (olive-sized portion) of bread after tzeith hakochavim (the emergence of the stars) even when making Shabbath early.

    – Loewian
    9 hours ago
















4















I had an argument with a friend about when you can perform the Pesach seder mitzvot of eating a kezayit of shmurah matzah and drinking four glasses of wine (beginning with kiddush).



My friend said that you must wait until after sunset to say kiddush and eat the kezayit of matzah since these mitzvot remind us of the exodus from Mitzrayim. Therefore, these mitzvot must be performed at the time the Jews left Egypt, after sunset following the day of the 14th of Nisan.



I said that this is true, unless you choose to bring yom tov in early (earlier than sunset). I rationalized that, just as with Shabbat, once you bring in yom tov, you can perform kiddush (even if before sunset). And, when you get to the part of the seder to eat Matzah, you can also fulfill this obligation as well.



So the question is, if you choose to bring in yom tov early, do you still have to wait until sunset to start the seder and say kiddush (fulfilling the obligation of drinking the first of the four cups of wine)? Similarly, if you bring in yom tov early, do you nevertheless have to wait until sunset to eat matzah?










share|improve this question

























  • Is there a mitzvah to take Yom Tov early as there is with Shabbat?

    – Josh K
    11 hours ago






  • 1





    @JoshK it is a mitzvah to add to the holy of Yom Tov, just as Shabbat. See Yoma 81b (translation from Sefaria): And I have derived only the mitzva of adding to Yom Kippur; from where is it derived that one must also sanctify and append time before and after Festivals? The verse states: “You shall rest” (Leviticus 23:32), to teach that this rule applies even to Festivals, on which one is commanded to rest.

    – D A
    10 hours ago













  • תדה , @D A, I couldn't find a source on that

    – Josh K
    10 hours ago











  • I believe the Maharal rules that one must eat a kzayith (olive-sized portion) of bread after tzeith hakochavim (the emergence of the stars) even when making Shabbath early.

    – Loewian
    9 hours ago














4












4








4








I had an argument with a friend about when you can perform the Pesach seder mitzvot of eating a kezayit of shmurah matzah and drinking four glasses of wine (beginning with kiddush).



My friend said that you must wait until after sunset to say kiddush and eat the kezayit of matzah since these mitzvot remind us of the exodus from Mitzrayim. Therefore, these mitzvot must be performed at the time the Jews left Egypt, after sunset following the day of the 14th of Nisan.



I said that this is true, unless you choose to bring yom tov in early (earlier than sunset). I rationalized that, just as with Shabbat, once you bring in yom tov, you can perform kiddush (even if before sunset). And, when you get to the part of the seder to eat Matzah, you can also fulfill this obligation as well.



So the question is, if you choose to bring in yom tov early, do you still have to wait until sunset to start the seder and say kiddush (fulfilling the obligation of drinking the first of the four cups of wine)? Similarly, if you bring in yom tov early, do you nevertheless have to wait until sunset to eat matzah?










share|improve this question
















I had an argument with a friend about when you can perform the Pesach seder mitzvot of eating a kezayit of shmurah matzah and drinking four glasses of wine (beginning with kiddush).



My friend said that you must wait until after sunset to say kiddush and eat the kezayit of matzah since these mitzvot remind us of the exodus from Mitzrayim. Therefore, these mitzvot must be performed at the time the Jews left Egypt, after sunset following the day of the 14th of Nisan.



I said that this is true, unless you choose to bring yom tov in early (earlier than sunset). I rationalized that, just as with Shabbat, once you bring in yom tov, you can perform kiddush (even if before sunset). And, when you get to the part of the seder to eat Matzah, you can also fulfill this obligation as well.



So the question is, if you choose to bring in yom tov early, do you still have to wait until sunset to start the seder and say kiddush (fulfilling the obligation of drinking the first of the four cups of wine)? Similarly, if you bring in yom tov early, do you nevertheless have to wait until sunset to eat matzah?







passover yom-tov kiddush matzah sunset-shekia






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share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 6 hours ago









Alex

23.4k157133




23.4k157133










asked 11 hours ago









D AD A

554




554













  • Is there a mitzvah to take Yom Tov early as there is with Shabbat?

    – Josh K
    11 hours ago






  • 1





    @JoshK it is a mitzvah to add to the holy of Yom Tov, just as Shabbat. See Yoma 81b (translation from Sefaria): And I have derived only the mitzva of adding to Yom Kippur; from where is it derived that one must also sanctify and append time before and after Festivals? The verse states: “You shall rest” (Leviticus 23:32), to teach that this rule applies even to Festivals, on which one is commanded to rest.

    – D A
    10 hours ago













  • תדה , @D A, I couldn't find a source on that

    – Josh K
    10 hours ago











  • I believe the Maharal rules that one must eat a kzayith (olive-sized portion) of bread after tzeith hakochavim (the emergence of the stars) even when making Shabbath early.

    – Loewian
    9 hours ago



















  • Is there a mitzvah to take Yom Tov early as there is with Shabbat?

    – Josh K
    11 hours ago






  • 1





    @JoshK it is a mitzvah to add to the holy of Yom Tov, just as Shabbat. See Yoma 81b (translation from Sefaria): And I have derived only the mitzva of adding to Yom Kippur; from where is it derived that one must also sanctify and append time before and after Festivals? The verse states: “You shall rest” (Leviticus 23:32), to teach that this rule applies even to Festivals, on which one is commanded to rest.

    – D A
    10 hours ago













  • תדה , @D A, I couldn't find a source on that

    – Josh K
    10 hours ago











  • I believe the Maharal rules that one must eat a kzayith (olive-sized portion) of bread after tzeith hakochavim (the emergence of the stars) even when making Shabbath early.

    – Loewian
    9 hours ago

















Is there a mitzvah to take Yom Tov early as there is with Shabbat?

– Josh K
11 hours ago





Is there a mitzvah to take Yom Tov early as there is with Shabbat?

– Josh K
11 hours ago




1




1





@JoshK it is a mitzvah to add to the holy of Yom Tov, just as Shabbat. See Yoma 81b (translation from Sefaria): And I have derived only the mitzva of adding to Yom Kippur; from where is it derived that one must also sanctify and append time before and after Festivals? The verse states: “You shall rest” (Leviticus 23:32), to teach that this rule applies even to Festivals, on which one is commanded to rest.

– D A
10 hours ago







@JoshK it is a mitzvah to add to the holy of Yom Tov, just as Shabbat. See Yoma 81b (translation from Sefaria): And I have derived only the mitzva of adding to Yom Kippur; from where is it derived that one must also sanctify and append time before and after Festivals? The verse states: “You shall rest” (Leviticus 23:32), to teach that this rule applies even to Festivals, on which one is commanded to rest.

– D A
10 hours ago















תדה , @D A, I couldn't find a source on that

– Josh K
10 hours ago





תדה , @D A, I couldn't find a source on that

– Josh K
10 hours ago













I believe the Maharal rules that one must eat a kzayith (olive-sized portion) of bread after tzeith hakochavim (the emergence of the stars) even when making Shabbath early.

– Loewian
9 hours ago





I believe the Maharal rules that one must eat a kzayith (olive-sized portion) of bread after tzeith hakochavim (the emergence of the stars) even when making Shabbath early.

– Loewian
9 hours ago










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















5














You cannot begin to recite Kiddush, drink 4 cups and eat matsa and maror before the night (exit of the stars, later than sunset). The time the Jews left Egypt was at night. And the korban Pesach and matsot were eaten at night. Further eating of pesach dorot was established by Tora as a night mitsva.



Shulchan Aruch Orach Chayim 472.1




אבל לא יאמר קידוש עד שתחשך:‏



One doesn't say Kiddush until it gets dark.




Mishna Berura




(ד) אבל לא יאמר קידוש - ר"ל דלא תימא כיון שמצוה למהר יתחיל הקידוש וההגדה מבעוד יום כמו שמצינו בשבת ויו"ט שיכול להוסיף מחול על הקודש ולקדש ולאכול מבעוד יום וכנ"ל בסימן רס"ז קמ"ל דלגבי פסח אינו כן לפי שאכילת מצה הוקשה לפסח שנאמר על מצות ומרורים יאכלוהו ופסח אינו נאכל אלא בלילה והקידוש צריך להיות בשעה הראויה למצה ועוד דכוס של קידוש הוא אחד מארבע כוסות וכולהו בתר הגדה ומצה ומרור גרירי: ‏



Regarding Pesach, because eating matsa is linked in the verse to Pascal sacrifice. The verse says that they must to eat it with matsot and maror. And pesach is eaten only by night. And Kiddush needs to be at a time adapted to eating matsa. Additionally, the Kiddush cup is one of the four cups and all 4 cups follow hagada, matsa and maror.




See also Aruch Hashulchan






share|improve this answer


























  • +1 Because of the way the question is posed, you might like to emphasize that night (exit of the stars) is later than sunset!

    – Avrohom Yitzchok
    6 hours ago











  • @Avrohom Yitschok don

    – kouty
    5 hours ago











  • This isn't quite accurate. One can say Kiddush before sunset but it won't count for the first of the four cups. Someone who only has one cup of wine and no Matza can say Kiddush before sunset no problem, since he won't be able to do those Mitzvot later anyway

    – Double AA
    2 hours ago













  • Right but the first cause is not only Kiddush. He is also one of the 4 cups. I treated the general case after poskim. I only pasted. Moreover, to make Kiddush is linked to seuda and seuda is based on matsa

    – kouty
    2 hours ago



















1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









5














You cannot begin to recite Kiddush, drink 4 cups and eat matsa and maror before the night (exit of the stars, later than sunset). The time the Jews left Egypt was at night. And the korban Pesach and matsot were eaten at night. Further eating of pesach dorot was established by Tora as a night mitsva.



Shulchan Aruch Orach Chayim 472.1




אבל לא יאמר קידוש עד שתחשך:‏



One doesn't say Kiddush until it gets dark.




Mishna Berura




(ד) אבל לא יאמר קידוש - ר"ל דלא תימא כיון שמצוה למהר יתחיל הקידוש וההגדה מבעוד יום כמו שמצינו בשבת ויו"ט שיכול להוסיף מחול על הקודש ולקדש ולאכול מבעוד יום וכנ"ל בסימן רס"ז קמ"ל דלגבי פסח אינו כן לפי שאכילת מצה הוקשה לפסח שנאמר על מצות ומרורים יאכלוהו ופסח אינו נאכל אלא בלילה והקידוש צריך להיות בשעה הראויה למצה ועוד דכוס של קידוש הוא אחד מארבע כוסות וכולהו בתר הגדה ומצה ומרור גרירי: ‏



Regarding Pesach, because eating matsa is linked in the verse to Pascal sacrifice. The verse says that they must to eat it with matsot and maror. And pesach is eaten only by night. And Kiddush needs to be at a time adapted to eating matsa. Additionally, the Kiddush cup is one of the four cups and all 4 cups follow hagada, matsa and maror.




See also Aruch Hashulchan






share|improve this answer


























  • +1 Because of the way the question is posed, you might like to emphasize that night (exit of the stars) is later than sunset!

    – Avrohom Yitzchok
    6 hours ago











  • @Avrohom Yitschok don

    – kouty
    5 hours ago











  • This isn't quite accurate. One can say Kiddush before sunset but it won't count for the first of the four cups. Someone who only has one cup of wine and no Matza can say Kiddush before sunset no problem, since he won't be able to do those Mitzvot later anyway

    – Double AA
    2 hours ago













  • Right but the first cause is not only Kiddush. He is also one of the 4 cups. I treated the general case after poskim. I only pasted. Moreover, to make Kiddush is linked to seuda and seuda is based on matsa

    – kouty
    2 hours ago
















5














You cannot begin to recite Kiddush, drink 4 cups and eat matsa and maror before the night (exit of the stars, later than sunset). The time the Jews left Egypt was at night. And the korban Pesach and matsot were eaten at night. Further eating of pesach dorot was established by Tora as a night mitsva.



Shulchan Aruch Orach Chayim 472.1




אבל לא יאמר קידוש עד שתחשך:‏



One doesn't say Kiddush until it gets dark.




Mishna Berura




(ד) אבל לא יאמר קידוש - ר"ל דלא תימא כיון שמצוה למהר יתחיל הקידוש וההגדה מבעוד יום כמו שמצינו בשבת ויו"ט שיכול להוסיף מחול על הקודש ולקדש ולאכול מבעוד יום וכנ"ל בסימן רס"ז קמ"ל דלגבי פסח אינו כן לפי שאכילת מצה הוקשה לפסח שנאמר על מצות ומרורים יאכלוהו ופסח אינו נאכל אלא בלילה והקידוש צריך להיות בשעה הראויה למצה ועוד דכוס של קידוש הוא אחד מארבע כוסות וכולהו בתר הגדה ומצה ומרור גרירי: ‏



Regarding Pesach, because eating matsa is linked in the verse to Pascal sacrifice. The verse says that they must to eat it with matsot and maror. And pesach is eaten only by night. And Kiddush needs to be at a time adapted to eating matsa. Additionally, the Kiddush cup is one of the four cups and all 4 cups follow hagada, matsa and maror.




See also Aruch Hashulchan






share|improve this answer


























  • +1 Because of the way the question is posed, you might like to emphasize that night (exit of the stars) is later than sunset!

    – Avrohom Yitzchok
    6 hours ago











  • @Avrohom Yitschok don

    – kouty
    5 hours ago











  • This isn't quite accurate. One can say Kiddush before sunset but it won't count for the first of the four cups. Someone who only has one cup of wine and no Matza can say Kiddush before sunset no problem, since he won't be able to do those Mitzvot later anyway

    – Double AA
    2 hours ago













  • Right but the first cause is not only Kiddush. He is also one of the 4 cups. I treated the general case after poskim. I only pasted. Moreover, to make Kiddush is linked to seuda and seuda is based on matsa

    – kouty
    2 hours ago














5












5








5







You cannot begin to recite Kiddush, drink 4 cups and eat matsa and maror before the night (exit of the stars, later than sunset). The time the Jews left Egypt was at night. And the korban Pesach and matsot were eaten at night. Further eating of pesach dorot was established by Tora as a night mitsva.



Shulchan Aruch Orach Chayim 472.1




אבל לא יאמר קידוש עד שתחשך:‏



One doesn't say Kiddush until it gets dark.




Mishna Berura




(ד) אבל לא יאמר קידוש - ר"ל דלא תימא כיון שמצוה למהר יתחיל הקידוש וההגדה מבעוד יום כמו שמצינו בשבת ויו"ט שיכול להוסיף מחול על הקודש ולקדש ולאכול מבעוד יום וכנ"ל בסימן רס"ז קמ"ל דלגבי פסח אינו כן לפי שאכילת מצה הוקשה לפסח שנאמר על מצות ומרורים יאכלוהו ופסח אינו נאכל אלא בלילה והקידוש צריך להיות בשעה הראויה למצה ועוד דכוס של קידוש הוא אחד מארבע כוסות וכולהו בתר הגדה ומצה ומרור גרירי: ‏



Regarding Pesach, because eating matsa is linked in the verse to Pascal sacrifice. The verse says that they must to eat it with matsot and maror. And pesach is eaten only by night. And Kiddush needs to be at a time adapted to eating matsa. Additionally, the Kiddush cup is one of the four cups and all 4 cups follow hagada, matsa and maror.




See also Aruch Hashulchan






share|improve this answer















You cannot begin to recite Kiddush, drink 4 cups and eat matsa and maror before the night (exit of the stars, later than sunset). The time the Jews left Egypt was at night. And the korban Pesach and matsot were eaten at night. Further eating of pesach dorot was established by Tora as a night mitsva.



Shulchan Aruch Orach Chayim 472.1




אבל לא יאמר קידוש עד שתחשך:‏



One doesn't say Kiddush until it gets dark.




Mishna Berura




(ד) אבל לא יאמר קידוש - ר"ל דלא תימא כיון שמצוה למהר יתחיל הקידוש וההגדה מבעוד יום כמו שמצינו בשבת ויו"ט שיכול להוסיף מחול על הקודש ולקדש ולאכול מבעוד יום וכנ"ל בסימן רס"ז קמ"ל דלגבי פסח אינו כן לפי שאכילת מצה הוקשה לפסח שנאמר על מצות ומרורים יאכלוהו ופסח אינו נאכל אלא בלילה והקידוש צריך להיות בשעה הראויה למצה ועוד דכוס של קידוש הוא אחד מארבע כוסות וכולהו בתר הגדה ומצה ומרור גרירי: ‏



Regarding Pesach, because eating matsa is linked in the verse to Pascal sacrifice. The verse says that they must to eat it with matsot and maror. And pesach is eaten only by night. And Kiddush needs to be at a time adapted to eating matsa. Additionally, the Kiddush cup is one of the four cups and all 4 cups follow hagada, matsa and maror.




See also Aruch Hashulchan







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 5 hours ago

























answered 10 hours ago









koutykouty

15.6k32047




15.6k32047













  • +1 Because of the way the question is posed, you might like to emphasize that night (exit of the stars) is later than sunset!

    – Avrohom Yitzchok
    6 hours ago











  • @Avrohom Yitschok don

    – kouty
    5 hours ago











  • This isn't quite accurate. One can say Kiddush before sunset but it won't count for the first of the four cups. Someone who only has one cup of wine and no Matza can say Kiddush before sunset no problem, since he won't be able to do those Mitzvot later anyway

    – Double AA
    2 hours ago













  • Right but the first cause is not only Kiddush. He is also one of the 4 cups. I treated the general case after poskim. I only pasted. Moreover, to make Kiddush is linked to seuda and seuda is based on matsa

    – kouty
    2 hours ago



















  • +1 Because of the way the question is posed, you might like to emphasize that night (exit of the stars) is later than sunset!

    – Avrohom Yitzchok
    6 hours ago











  • @Avrohom Yitschok don

    – kouty
    5 hours ago











  • This isn't quite accurate. One can say Kiddush before sunset but it won't count for the first of the four cups. Someone who only has one cup of wine and no Matza can say Kiddush before sunset no problem, since he won't be able to do those Mitzvot later anyway

    – Double AA
    2 hours ago













  • Right but the first cause is not only Kiddush. He is also one of the 4 cups. I treated the general case after poskim. I only pasted. Moreover, to make Kiddush is linked to seuda and seuda is based on matsa

    – kouty
    2 hours ago

















+1 Because of the way the question is posed, you might like to emphasize that night (exit of the stars) is later than sunset!

– Avrohom Yitzchok
6 hours ago





+1 Because of the way the question is posed, you might like to emphasize that night (exit of the stars) is later than sunset!

– Avrohom Yitzchok
6 hours ago













@Avrohom Yitschok don

– kouty
5 hours ago





@Avrohom Yitschok don

– kouty
5 hours ago













This isn't quite accurate. One can say Kiddush before sunset but it won't count for the first of the four cups. Someone who only has one cup of wine and no Matza can say Kiddush before sunset no problem, since he won't be able to do those Mitzvot later anyway

– Double AA
2 hours ago







This isn't quite accurate. One can say Kiddush before sunset but it won't count for the first of the four cups. Someone who only has one cup of wine and no Matza can say Kiddush before sunset no problem, since he won't be able to do those Mitzvot later anyway

– Double AA
2 hours ago















Right but the first cause is not only Kiddush. He is also one of the 4 cups. I treated the general case after poskim. I only pasted. Moreover, to make Kiddush is linked to seuda and seuda is based on matsa

– kouty
2 hours ago





Right but the first cause is not only Kiddush. He is also one of the 4 cups. I treated the general case after poskim. I only pasted. Moreover, to make Kiddush is linked to seuda and seuda is based on matsa

– kouty
2 hours ago



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