In AN 4.171, what is “reincarnation where the intention of others is effective”?
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Bhikkhu Sujato's translation of AN 4.171 says:
Mendicants, there are four kinds of reincarnation. Cattārome,
bhikkhave, attabhāvapaṭilābhā.
What four? Katame cattāro?
There is a reincarnation where one’s own intention is effective, not
that of others. Atthi, bhikkhave, attabhāvapaṭilābho, yasmiṃ
attabhāvapaṭilābhe attasañcetanā kamati, no parasañcetanā.
There is a reincarnation where the intention of others is effective,
not one’s own. Atthi, bhikkhave, attabhāvapaṭilābho, yasmiṃ
attabhāvapaṭilābhe parasañcetanā kamati, no attasañcetanā.
There is a reincarnation where both one’s own and others’ intentions
are effective. Atthi, bhikkhave, attabhāvapaṭilābho, yasmiṃ
attabhāvapaṭilābhe attasañcetanā ca kamati parasañcetanā ca.
There is a reincarnation where neither one’s own nor others’
intentions are effective. Atthi, bhikkhave, attabhāvapaṭilābho, yasmiṃ
attabhāvapaṭilābhe nevattasañcetanā kamati, no parasañcetanā.
These are the four kinds of reincarnation.” Ime kho, bhikkhave,
cattāro attabhāvapaṭilābhā”ti.
What is "reincarnation where the intention of others is effective"?
pali-canon
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Bhikkhu Sujato's translation of AN 4.171 says:
Mendicants, there are four kinds of reincarnation. Cattārome,
bhikkhave, attabhāvapaṭilābhā.
What four? Katame cattāro?
There is a reincarnation where one’s own intention is effective, not
that of others. Atthi, bhikkhave, attabhāvapaṭilābho, yasmiṃ
attabhāvapaṭilābhe attasañcetanā kamati, no parasañcetanā.
There is a reincarnation where the intention of others is effective,
not one’s own. Atthi, bhikkhave, attabhāvapaṭilābho, yasmiṃ
attabhāvapaṭilābhe parasañcetanā kamati, no attasañcetanā.
There is a reincarnation where both one’s own and others’ intentions
are effective. Atthi, bhikkhave, attabhāvapaṭilābho, yasmiṃ
attabhāvapaṭilābhe attasañcetanā ca kamati parasañcetanā ca.
There is a reincarnation where neither one’s own nor others’
intentions are effective. Atthi, bhikkhave, attabhāvapaṭilābho, yasmiṃ
attabhāvapaṭilābhe nevattasañcetanā kamati, no parasañcetanā.
These are the four kinds of reincarnation.” Ime kho, bhikkhave,
cattāro attabhāvapaṭilābhā”ti.
What is "reincarnation where the intention of others is effective"?
pali-canon
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
Bhikkhu Sujato's translation of AN 4.171 says:
Mendicants, there are four kinds of reincarnation. Cattārome,
bhikkhave, attabhāvapaṭilābhā.
What four? Katame cattāro?
There is a reincarnation where one’s own intention is effective, not
that of others. Atthi, bhikkhave, attabhāvapaṭilābho, yasmiṃ
attabhāvapaṭilābhe attasañcetanā kamati, no parasañcetanā.
There is a reincarnation where the intention of others is effective,
not one’s own. Atthi, bhikkhave, attabhāvapaṭilābho, yasmiṃ
attabhāvapaṭilābhe parasañcetanā kamati, no attasañcetanā.
There is a reincarnation where both one’s own and others’ intentions
are effective. Atthi, bhikkhave, attabhāvapaṭilābho, yasmiṃ
attabhāvapaṭilābhe attasañcetanā ca kamati parasañcetanā ca.
There is a reincarnation where neither one’s own nor others’
intentions are effective. Atthi, bhikkhave, attabhāvapaṭilābho, yasmiṃ
attabhāvapaṭilābhe nevattasañcetanā kamati, no parasañcetanā.
These are the four kinds of reincarnation.” Ime kho, bhikkhave,
cattāro attabhāvapaṭilābhā”ti.
What is "reincarnation where the intention of others is effective"?
pali-canon
Bhikkhu Sujato's translation of AN 4.171 says:
Mendicants, there are four kinds of reincarnation. Cattārome,
bhikkhave, attabhāvapaṭilābhā.
What four? Katame cattāro?
There is a reincarnation where one’s own intention is effective, not
that of others. Atthi, bhikkhave, attabhāvapaṭilābho, yasmiṃ
attabhāvapaṭilābhe attasañcetanā kamati, no parasañcetanā.
There is a reincarnation where the intention of others is effective,
not one’s own. Atthi, bhikkhave, attabhāvapaṭilābho, yasmiṃ
attabhāvapaṭilābhe parasañcetanā kamati, no attasañcetanā.
There is a reincarnation where both one’s own and others’ intentions
are effective. Atthi, bhikkhave, attabhāvapaṭilābho, yasmiṃ
attabhāvapaṭilābhe attasañcetanā ca kamati parasañcetanā ca.
There is a reincarnation where neither one’s own nor others’
intentions are effective. Atthi, bhikkhave, attabhāvapaṭilābho, yasmiṃ
attabhāvapaṭilābhe nevattasañcetanā kamati, no parasañcetanā.
These are the four kinds of reincarnation.” Ime kho, bhikkhave,
cattāro attabhāvapaṭilābhā”ti.
What is "reincarnation where the intention of others is effective"?
pali-canon
pali-canon
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asked 6 hours ago
Dhammadhatu
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2 Answers
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Perhaps this is what refers to in Abhidhamma as prompted and unprompted.
For instance, a person can kill someone with his own intention or intention of another person (prompted by someone else). One can influence another to kill.
I may be wrong.
add a comment |
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Per the commentary, this passage refers to devas corrupted by the mind (Manopadosika-deva), living in the world of the Four Great Kings. When they get angry with one another their mutual anger leads to their mutual deaths.
.
Manopadosika-deva: 'the celestial beings corruptible by temper', are a class of devas of the sense-sphere. They spend their time in becoming annoyed with one another, and getting into a temper, and thus by being bodily and mentally exhausted, they pass from that world.
.
A class of devas living in the Catummaharajika world. They burn continually with envy one against another and their hearts become ill disposed and debauched. Their bodies thus become feeble and their minds imbecile, and, as a consequence, they fall from their state.
.
There are, bhikkhus, certain gods called ‘corrupted by mind.’ These gods contemplate one another with excessive envy. As a consequence their minds becomes corrupted by anger towards one another. When their minds are corrupted by anger, their bodies and minds become exhausted and consequently, they pass away from that plane.
.
There are gods named ‘malevolent’. They spend too much time gazing at each other, so they grow angry with each other, and their bodies and minds get tired. They pass away from that group of gods.
So, one deva's hatred towards another deva provokes hatred in that deva towards the first, causing a vicious circle, and this very hatred exhausts their spirits until they fall from their godly state.
One deva's hatred is not his own deliberate intention but is merely a reaction to another deva's hatred. Therefore the deva falls from his state and comes to a different state through an "intention of other".
It's interesting how the vicious circle of judgement starts not through one of the devas performing some unwelcomed act to another, but rather through both spending too much time wondering about the other's attitude to oneself.
I suppose this basically means that not all karma is strictly personal. While in the simplest cases sentient beings inherit their own karma, there are cases when they create (bad) karma for one another, and there are cases when a karmic pattern emerges spontaneously from a background of ignorance - not through anyone's fault.
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
Perhaps this is what refers to in Abhidhamma as prompted and unprompted.
For instance, a person can kill someone with his own intention or intention of another person (prompted by someone else). One can influence another to kill.
I may be wrong.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Perhaps this is what refers to in Abhidhamma as prompted and unprompted.
For instance, a person can kill someone with his own intention or intention of another person (prompted by someone else). One can influence another to kill.
I may be wrong.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
Perhaps this is what refers to in Abhidhamma as prompted and unprompted.
For instance, a person can kill someone with his own intention or intention of another person (prompted by someone else). One can influence another to kill.
I may be wrong.
Perhaps this is what refers to in Abhidhamma as prompted and unprompted.
For instance, a person can kill someone with his own intention or intention of another person (prompted by someone else). One can influence another to kill.
I may be wrong.
answered 2 hours ago
SarathW
2,308212
2,308212
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Per the commentary, this passage refers to devas corrupted by the mind (Manopadosika-deva), living in the world of the Four Great Kings. When they get angry with one another their mutual anger leads to their mutual deaths.
.
Manopadosika-deva: 'the celestial beings corruptible by temper', are a class of devas of the sense-sphere. They spend their time in becoming annoyed with one another, and getting into a temper, and thus by being bodily and mentally exhausted, they pass from that world.
.
A class of devas living in the Catummaharajika world. They burn continually with envy one against another and their hearts become ill disposed and debauched. Their bodies thus become feeble and their minds imbecile, and, as a consequence, they fall from their state.
.
There are, bhikkhus, certain gods called ‘corrupted by mind.’ These gods contemplate one another with excessive envy. As a consequence their minds becomes corrupted by anger towards one another. When their minds are corrupted by anger, their bodies and minds become exhausted and consequently, they pass away from that plane.
.
There are gods named ‘malevolent’. They spend too much time gazing at each other, so they grow angry with each other, and their bodies and minds get tired. They pass away from that group of gods.
So, one deva's hatred towards another deva provokes hatred in that deva towards the first, causing a vicious circle, and this very hatred exhausts their spirits until they fall from their godly state.
One deva's hatred is not his own deliberate intention but is merely a reaction to another deva's hatred. Therefore the deva falls from his state and comes to a different state through an "intention of other".
It's interesting how the vicious circle of judgement starts not through one of the devas performing some unwelcomed act to another, but rather through both spending too much time wondering about the other's attitude to oneself.
I suppose this basically means that not all karma is strictly personal. While in the simplest cases sentient beings inherit their own karma, there are cases when they create (bad) karma for one another, and there are cases when a karmic pattern emerges spontaneously from a background of ignorance - not through anyone's fault.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Per the commentary, this passage refers to devas corrupted by the mind (Manopadosika-deva), living in the world of the Four Great Kings. When they get angry with one another their mutual anger leads to their mutual deaths.
.
Manopadosika-deva: 'the celestial beings corruptible by temper', are a class of devas of the sense-sphere. They spend their time in becoming annoyed with one another, and getting into a temper, and thus by being bodily and mentally exhausted, they pass from that world.
.
A class of devas living in the Catummaharajika world. They burn continually with envy one against another and their hearts become ill disposed and debauched. Their bodies thus become feeble and their minds imbecile, and, as a consequence, they fall from their state.
.
There are, bhikkhus, certain gods called ‘corrupted by mind.’ These gods contemplate one another with excessive envy. As a consequence their minds becomes corrupted by anger towards one another. When their minds are corrupted by anger, their bodies and minds become exhausted and consequently, they pass away from that plane.
.
There are gods named ‘malevolent’. They spend too much time gazing at each other, so they grow angry with each other, and their bodies and minds get tired. They pass away from that group of gods.
So, one deva's hatred towards another deva provokes hatred in that deva towards the first, causing a vicious circle, and this very hatred exhausts their spirits until they fall from their godly state.
One deva's hatred is not his own deliberate intention but is merely a reaction to another deva's hatred. Therefore the deva falls from his state and comes to a different state through an "intention of other".
It's interesting how the vicious circle of judgement starts not through one of the devas performing some unwelcomed act to another, but rather through both spending too much time wondering about the other's attitude to oneself.
I suppose this basically means that not all karma is strictly personal. While in the simplest cases sentient beings inherit their own karma, there are cases when they create (bad) karma for one another, and there are cases when a karmic pattern emerges spontaneously from a background of ignorance - not through anyone's fault.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
Per the commentary, this passage refers to devas corrupted by the mind (Manopadosika-deva), living in the world of the Four Great Kings. When they get angry with one another their mutual anger leads to their mutual deaths.
.
Manopadosika-deva: 'the celestial beings corruptible by temper', are a class of devas of the sense-sphere. They spend their time in becoming annoyed with one another, and getting into a temper, and thus by being bodily and mentally exhausted, they pass from that world.
.
A class of devas living in the Catummaharajika world. They burn continually with envy one against another and their hearts become ill disposed and debauched. Their bodies thus become feeble and their minds imbecile, and, as a consequence, they fall from their state.
.
There are, bhikkhus, certain gods called ‘corrupted by mind.’ These gods contemplate one another with excessive envy. As a consequence their minds becomes corrupted by anger towards one another. When their minds are corrupted by anger, their bodies and minds become exhausted and consequently, they pass away from that plane.
.
There are gods named ‘malevolent’. They spend too much time gazing at each other, so they grow angry with each other, and their bodies and minds get tired. They pass away from that group of gods.
So, one deva's hatred towards another deva provokes hatred in that deva towards the first, causing a vicious circle, and this very hatred exhausts their spirits until they fall from their godly state.
One deva's hatred is not his own deliberate intention but is merely a reaction to another deva's hatred. Therefore the deva falls from his state and comes to a different state through an "intention of other".
It's interesting how the vicious circle of judgement starts not through one of the devas performing some unwelcomed act to another, but rather through both spending too much time wondering about the other's attitude to oneself.
I suppose this basically means that not all karma is strictly personal. While in the simplest cases sentient beings inherit their own karma, there are cases when they create (bad) karma for one another, and there are cases when a karmic pattern emerges spontaneously from a background of ignorance - not through anyone's fault.
Per the commentary, this passage refers to devas corrupted by the mind (Manopadosika-deva), living in the world of the Four Great Kings. When they get angry with one another their mutual anger leads to their mutual deaths.
.
Manopadosika-deva: 'the celestial beings corruptible by temper', are a class of devas of the sense-sphere. They spend their time in becoming annoyed with one another, and getting into a temper, and thus by being bodily and mentally exhausted, they pass from that world.
.
A class of devas living in the Catummaharajika world. They burn continually with envy one against another and their hearts become ill disposed and debauched. Their bodies thus become feeble and their minds imbecile, and, as a consequence, they fall from their state.
.
There are, bhikkhus, certain gods called ‘corrupted by mind.’ These gods contemplate one another with excessive envy. As a consequence their minds becomes corrupted by anger towards one another. When their minds are corrupted by anger, their bodies and minds become exhausted and consequently, they pass away from that plane.
.
There are gods named ‘malevolent’. They spend too much time gazing at each other, so they grow angry with each other, and their bodies and minds get tired. They pass away from that group of gods.
So, one deva's hatred towards another deva provokes hatred in that deva towards the first, causing a vicious circle, and this very hatred exhausts their spirits until they fall from their godly state.
One deva's hatred is not his own deliberate intention but is merely a reaction to another deva's hatred. Therefore the deva falls from his state and comes to a different state through an "intention of other".
It's interesting how the vicious circle of judgement starts not through one of the devas performing some unwelcomed act to another, but rather through both spending too much time wondering about the other's attitude to oneself.
I suppose this basically means that not all karma is strictly personal. While in the simplest cases sentient beings inherit their own karma, there are cases when they create (bad) karma for one another, and there are cases when a karmic pattern emerges spontaneously from a background of ignorance - not through anyone's fault.
edited 58 mins ago
answered 1 hour ago
Andrei Volkov♦
36.9k330107
36.9k330107
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