TeX warnings about non closed groups and LaTeX editors (that not warning)

Here is a MWE:

documentclass{article}



begin{document}



bgroup

Test 1



{

bfseries

Test 2



begingroup

Test 3

{



Test 4



end{document}

After running pdflatex through my kile editor, I don't get even a simple message or warning in the output (as I see it inside kile's "Log and Messages" window) but in the log file or by runing pdflatex I can see:

### simple group (level 4) entered at line 14 ({)

### semi simple group (level 3) entered at line 12 (begingroup)

### simple group (level 2) entered at line 8 ({)

### simple group (level 1) entered at line 5 ({)

### bottom level</usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/fonts/type1/public/amsfonts/cm/c

mbx10.pfb></usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/fonts/type1/public/amsfonts/cm/cmr10.p

fb>

I was expecting at least a warning on my editor. So my question is:

Which editors reproduce this "no warning" problem?

Is it a bug we have to report for every editor?

edited Oct 30 '17 at 5:19

asked Oct 30 '17 at 2:30

koleygr

12.8k11038

1

the simple group message is the warning. it's issued by tex, not latex. i don't have a copy at hand, but i'm sure it's documented in the texbook. i also covered it in a talk at tug 2017; the slides are available from a link at the tug 2017 web site, accessible at tug.org/tug2017. the paper appears in tugboat 38:2 (accessible only to members at the moment); it's much different from the preprint, so if you're not a member, the slides are better.

– barbara beeton
Oct 30 '17 at 2:44

Thanks @barbarabeeton. For next visitors the slide is slide 14 here: gust.org.pl/bachotex/2017-pl/presentations/bbeeton-1-2017.pdf. It discussing about the good practice of closing any open group earlier, and at that slide talks about debugging of such "warnings". I also found there that a "good editor" had to provide functionality (like highlighting or may be warnings as far as I can understand it) about such groups... I tested on kile and LyX (kile just dont closing the highlighted area)... Both showed nothing on compilation. So, is this a feature of "no good editors" ?

– koleygr
Oct 30 '17 at 3:11

1

@koleygr Kile is hopeless with TeX stuff, at least in LaTeX files. Reliably hopeless. It certainly won't recognise those as warnings.

– cfr
Oct 30 '17 at 4:59

Thanks @cfr for the information... If anyone of you find the same problem in other editors you can add them in comments to include them in my post since it is an editor specific problem as far as I can understand now... (I can confirm the problem on kile and lyx right now...)

– koleygr
Oct 30 '17 at 5:08

1

it's not really a bug but of course it would not be an unreasonable feature request for any editor. TeX makes it tricky as it doesn't change the program exit status or use the word Warning or write to stderr rather than stdout or do anything else to give any indication that anything is wrong, so the editor would need to look for that specific text and show it in their view of editors/warnings.

– David Carlisle
Oct 30 '17 at 7:57

|
show 8 more comments

Here is a MWE:

documentclass{article}



begin{document}



bgroup

Test 1



{

bfseries

Test 2



begingroup

Test 3

{



Test 4



end{document}

### simple group (level 4) entered at line 14 ({)

### semi simple group (level 3) entered at line 12 (begingroup)

### simple group (level 2) entered at line 8 ({)

### simple group (level 1) entered at line 5 ({)

### bottom level</usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/fonts/type1/public/amsfonts/cm/c

mbx10.pfb></usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/fonts/type1/public/amsfonts/cm/cmr10.p

fb>

I was expecting at least a warning on my editor. So my question is:

Which editors reproduce this "no warning" problem?

Is it a bug we have to report for every editor?

edited Oct 30 '17 at 5:19

asked Oct 30 '17 at 2:30

koleygr

12.8k11038

1

the simple group message is the warning. it's issued by tex, not latex. i don't have a copy at hand, but i'm sure it's documented in the texbook. i also covered it in a talk at tug 2017; the slides are available from a link at the tug 2017 web site, accessible at tug.org/tug2017. the paper appears in tugboat 38:2 (accessible only to members at the moment); it's much different from the preprint, so if you're not a member, the slides are better.

– barbara beeton
Oct 30 '17 at 2:44

Thanks @barbarabeeton. For next visitors the slide is slide 14 here: gust.org.pl/bachotex/2017-pl/presentations/bbeeton-1-2017.pdf. It discussing about the good practice of closing any open group earlier, and at that slide talks about debugging of such "warnings". I also found there that a "good editor" had to provide functionality (like highlighting or may be warnings as far as I can understand it) about such groups... I tested on kile and LyX (kile just dont closing the highlighted area)... Both showed nothing on compilation. So, is this a feature of "no good editors" ?

– koleygr
Oct 30 '17 at 3:11

1

@koleygr Kile is hopeless with TeX stuff, at least in LaTeX files. Reliably hopeless. It certainly won't recognise those as warnings.

– cfr
Oct 30 '17 at 4:59

Thanks @cfr for the information... If anyone of you find the same problem in other editors you can add them in comments to include them in my post since it is an editor specific problem as far as I can understand now... (I can confirm the problem on kile and lyx right now...)

– koleygr
Oct 30 '17 at 5:08

1

it's not really a bug but of course it would not be an unreasonable feature request for any editor. TeX makes it tricky as it doesn't change the program exit status or use the word Warning or write to stderr rather than stdout or do anything else to give any indication that anything is wrong, so the editor would need to look for that specific text and show it in their view of editors/warnings.

– David Carlisle
Oct 30 '17 at 7:57

|
show 8 more comments

Here is a MWE:

documentclass{article}



begin{document}



bgroup

Test 1



{

bfseries

Test 2



begingroup

Test 3

{



Test 4



end{document}

### simple group (level 4) entered at line 14 ({)

### semi simple group (level 3) entered at line 12 (begingroup)

### simple group (level 2) entered at line 8 ({)

### simple group (level 1) entered at line 5 ({)

### bottom level</usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/fonts/type1/public/amsfonts/cm/c

mbx10.pfb></usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/fonts/type1/public/amsfonts/cm/cmr10.p

fb>

I was expecting at least a warning on my editor. So my question is:

Which editors reproduce this "no warning" problem?

Is it a bug we have to report for every editor?

edited Oct 30 '17 at 5:19

asked Oct 30 '17 at 2:30

koleygr

12.8k11038

Here is a MWE:

documentclass{article}



begin{document}



bgroup

Test 1



{

bfseries

Test 2



begingroup

Test 3

{



Test 4



end{document}

### simple group (level 4) entered at line 14 ({)

### semi simple group (level 3) entered at line 12 (begingroup)

### simple group (level 2) entered at line 8 ({)

### simple group (level 1) entered at line 5 ({)

### bottom level</usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/fonts/type1/public/amsfonts/cm/c

mbx10.pfb></usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/fonts/type1/public/amsfonts/cm/cmr10.p

fb>

I was expecting at least a warning on my editor. So my question is:

Which editors reproduce this "no warning" problem?

Is it a bug we have to report for every editor?

editors grouping

edited Oct 30 '17 at 5:19

asked Oct 30 '17 at 2:30

koleygr

12.8k11038

edited Oct 30 '17 at 5:19

asked Oct 30 '17 at 2:30

koleygr

12.8k11038

edited Oct 30 '17 at 5:19

asked Oct 30 '17 at 2:30

koleygr

12.8k11038

asked Oct 30 '17 at 2:30

koleygr

12.8k11038

asked Oct 30 '17 at 2:30

koleygr

12.8k11038

1

the simple group message is the warning. it's issued by tex, not latex. i don't have a copy at hand, but i'm sure it's documented in the texbook. i also covered it in a talk at tug 2017; the slides are available from a link at the tug 2017 web site, accessible at tug.org/tug2017. the paper appears in tugboat 38:2 (accessible only to members at the moment); it's much different from the preprint, so if you're not a member, the slides are better.

– barbara beeton
Oct 30 '17 at 2:44

Thanks @barbarabeeton. For next visitors the slide is slide 14 here: gust.org.pl/bachotex/2017-pl/presentations/bbeeton-1-2017.pdf. It discussing about the good practice of closing any open group earlier, and at that slide talks about debugging of such "warnings". I also found there that a "good editor" had to provide functionality (like highlighting or may be warnings as far as I can understand it) about such groups... I tested on kile and LyX (kile just dont closing the highlighted area)... Both showed nothing on compilation. So, is this a feature of "no good editors" ?

– koleygr
Oct 30 '17 at 3:11

1

@koleygr Kile is hopeless with TeX stuff, at least in LaTeX files. Reliably hopeless. It certainly won't recognise those as warnings.

– cfr
Oct 30 '17 at 4:59

Thanks @cfr for the information... If anyone of you find the same problem in other editors you can add them in comments to include them in my post since it is an editor specific problem as far as I can understand now... (I can confirm the problem on kile and lyx right now...)

– koleygr
Oct 30 '17 at 5:08

1

it's not really a bug but of course it would not be an unreasonable feature request for any editor. TeX makes it tricky as it doesn't change the program exit status or use the word Warning or write to stderr rather than stdout or do anything else to give any indication that anything is wrong, so the editor would need to look for that specific text and show it in their view of editors/warnings.

– David Carlisle
Oct 30 '17 at 7:57

|
show 8 more comments

1

the simple group message is the warning. it's issued by tex, not latex. i don't have a copy at hand, but i'm sure it's documented in the texbook. i also covered it in a talk at tug 2017; the slides are available from a link at the tug 2017 web site, accessible at tug.org/tug2017. the paper appears in tugboat 38:2 (accessible only to members at the moment); it's much different from the preprint, so if you're not a member, the slides are better.

– barbara beeton
Oct 30 '17 at 2:44

Thanks @barbarabeeton. For next visitors the slide is slide 14 here: gust.org.pl/bachotex/2017-pl/presentations/bbeeton-1-2017.pdf. It discussing about the good practice of closing any open group earlier, and at that slide talks about debugging of such "warnings". I also found there that a "good editor" had to provide functionality (like highlighting or may be warnings as far as I can understand it) about such groups... I tested on kile and LyX (kile just dont closing the highlighted area)... Both showed nothing on compilation. So, is this a feature of "no good editors" ?

– koleygr
Oct 30 '17 at 3:11

1

@koleygr Kile is hopeless with TeX stuff, at least in LaTeX files. Reliably hopeless. It certainly won't recognise those as warnings.

– cfr
Oct 30 '17 at 4:59

Thanks @cfr for the information... If anyone of you find the same problem in other editors you can add them in comments to include them in my post since it is an editor specific problem as far as I can understand now... (I can confirm the problem on kile and lyx right now...)

– koleygr
Oct 30 '17 at 5:08

1

it's not really a bug but of course it would not be an unreasonable feature request for any editor. TeX makes it tricky as it doesn't change the program exit status or use the word Warning or write to stderr rather than stdout or do anything else to give any indication that anything is wrong, so the editor would need to look for that specific text and show it in their view of editors/warnings.

– David Carlisle
Oct 30 '17 at 7:57

the simple group message is the warning. it's issued by tex, not latex. i don't have a copy at hand, but i'm sure it's documented in the texbook. i also covered it in a talk at tug 2017; the slides are available from a link at the tug 2017 web site, accessible at tug.org/tug2017. the paper appears in tugboat 38:2 (accessible only to members at the moment); it's much different from the preprint, so if you're not a member, the slides are better.

– barbara beeton
Oct 30 '17 at 2:44

Thanks @barbarabeeton. For next visitors the slide is slide 14 here: gust.org.pl/bachotex/2017-pl/presentations/bbeeton-1-2017.pdf. It discussing about the good practice of closing any open group earlier, and at that slide talks about debugging of such "warnings". I also found there that a "good editor" had to provide functionality (like highlighting or may be warnings as far as I can understand it) about such groups... I tested on kile and LyX (kile just dont closing the highlighted area)... Both showed nothing on compilation. So, is this a feature of "no good editors" ?

– koleygr
Oct 30 '17 at 3:11

@koleygr Kile is hopeless with TeX stuff, at least in LaTeX files. Reliably hopeless. It certainly won't recognise those as warnings.

– cfr
Oct 30 '17 at 4:59

Thanks @cfr for the information... If anyone of you find the same problem in other editors you can add them in comments to include them in my post since it is an editor specific problem as far as I can understand now... (I can confirm the problem on kile and lyx right now...)

– koleygr
Oct 30 '17 at 5:08

it's not really a bug but of course it would not be an unreasonable feature request for any editor. TeX makes it tricky as it doesn't change the program exit status or use the word Warning or write to stderr rather than stdout or do anything else to give any indication that anything is wrong, so the editor would need to look for that specific text and show it in their view of editors/warnings.

– David Carlisle
Oct 30 '17 at 7:57

|
show 8 more comments

1 Answer
1

active

oldest

votes

Groups inside LaTeX and TeX is something that sometimes could be complicated and could even not be closed at all or closed after the expansion of a command somehow complicated and thus only TeX would discover on exiting that one or more groups are still open. (Thanks to all of the members that commented and made me understand this fact and to this community in general that helped me see some examples like the described)

In my opinion a good editor should provide all of the output of the compilation proces and of course the user should gain the ability to understand as more messages as possible and be able to debug easier hes/her code.

In order to not leave the question unanswered I am adding here the editors that tested till now and didn't gave output in their interface about the non closed groups (that TeX already provided) but have left them hidden inside the log file.

Overleaf (online editor that also forces the compilation)

Kile (that you have to open the log file in order to find TeX output)

LyX (as far as I remember it was giving no information at all and I have to open the log file too -but used just two or three times-)

TeXworks??? (not sure now)

Anyone is welcome to edit and add/remove editors

PS: Finally I realized that this forgotten question should deal with hiding "importand" TeX information from the user interface to be more useful/general and to offer something in this community.

answered 35 mins ago

koleygr

12.8k11038

add a comment |

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1 Answer
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Overleaf (online editor that also forces the compilation)

Kile (that you have to open the log file in order to find TeX output)

LyX (as far as I remember it was giving no information at all and I have to open the log file too -but used just two or three times-)

TeXworks??? (not sure now)

Anyone is welcome to edit and add/remove editors

PS: Finally I realized that this forgotten question should deal with hiding "importand" TeX information from the user interface to be more useful/general and to offer something in this community.

answered 35 mins ago

koleygr

12.8k11038

add a comment |

Overleaf (online editor that also forces the compilation)

Kile (that you have to open the log file in order to find TeX output)

LyX (as far as I remember it was giving no information at all and I have to open the log file too -but used just two or three times-)

TeXworks??? (not sure now)

Anyone is welcome to edit and add/remove editors

PS: Finally I realized that this forgotten question should deal with hiding "importand" TeX information from the user interface to be more useful/general and to offer something in this community.

answered 35 mins ago

koleygr

12.8k11038

add a comment |

Overleaf (online editor that also forces the compilation)

Kile (that you have to open the log file in order to find TeX output)

LyX (as far as I remember it was giving no information at all and I have to open the log file too -but used just two or three times-)

TeXworks??? (not sure now)

Anyone is welcome to edit and add/remove editors

PS: Finally I realized that this forgotten question should deal with hiding "importand" TeX information from the user interface to be more useful/general and to offer something in this community.

answered 35 mins ago

koleygr

12.8k11038

Overleaf (online editor that also forces the compilation)

Kile (that you have to open the log file in order to find TeX output)

LyX (as far as I remember it was giving no information at all and I have to open the log file too -but used just two or three times-)

TeXworks??? (not sure now)

Anyone is welcome to edit and add/remove editors

PS: Finally I realized that this forgotten question should deal with hiding "importand" TeX information from the user interface to be more useful/general and to offer something in this community.

answered 35 mins ago

koleygr

12.8k11038

answered 35 mins ago

koleygr

12.8k11038

answered 35 mins ago

koleygr

12.8k11038

answered 35 mins ago

koleygr

12.8k11038

add a comment |

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