How to preserve electronics (computers, ipads, phones) for hundreds of years?
$begingroup$
Let's say you wanted to preserve some electronics for 500 years or more in a museum. What could you do to preserve them in working order for hundreds of years? Deep freeze? Lead lined vaults? Vacuum? I've seen questions about how long electronics would last left unattended, but not how to proactively protect them for 500 years.
Edit #1 - Let's say this is a fully functioning world, not a post apocalyptic world. Think of a museum in the future.
Thanks!
technology preservation
$endgroup$
|
show 7 more comments
$begingroup$
Let's say you wanted to preserve some electronics for 500 years or more in a museum. What could you do to preserve them in working order for hundreds of years? Deep freeze? Lead lined vaults? Vacuum? I've seen questions about how long electronics would last left unattended, but not how to proactively protect them for 500 years.
Edit #1 - Let's say this is a fully functioning world, not a post apocalyptic world. Think of a museum in the future.
Thanks!
technology preservation
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Possible duplicate of How long could we preserve technology post-apocalypse?
$endgroup$
– JBH
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
I read that question and nobody gave an answer that satisfies my answer. The answer that was selected didn't provide specific technologies to preserve electronics. Let's say this is a museum that wants to keep ancient tech working. I didn't see that in the question you cite. The question possible duplicate question talks about post apocalyptic world. Let's say this is a Utopian world with fully functioning infrastructure.
$endgroup$
– farmersteve
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@JBH The answer space for these two questions is different; answers there are unlikely to be applicable here, and vice versa. These are not duplicates.
$endgroup$
– Frostfyre
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Frostfyre, They appear to be a complete overlap to me. How do they differ?
$endgroup$
– JBH
5 hours ago
4
$begingroup$
@JBH Well, as the question specifically mentions : unattended vs proactive protection.
$endgroup$
– Ville Niemi
5 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
$begingroup$
Let's say you wanted to preserve some electronics for 500 years or more in a museum. What could you do to preserve them in working order for hundreds of years? Deep freeze? Lead lined vaults? Vacuum? I've seen questions about how long electronics would last left unattended, but not how to proactively protect them for 500 years.
Edit #1 - Let's say this is a fully functioning world, not a post apocalyptic world. Think of a museum in the future.
Thanks!
technology preservation
$endgroup$
Let's say you wanted to preserve some electronics for 500 years or more in a museum. What could you do to preserve them in working order for hundreds of years? Deep freeze? Lead lined vaults? Vacuum? I've seen questions about how long electronics would last left unattended, but not how to proactively protect them for 500 years.
Edit #1 - Let's say this is a fully functioning world, not a post apocalyptic world. Think of a museum in the future.
Thanks!
technology preservation
technology preservation
edited 4 hours ago
a CVn♦
21.9k1291179
21.9k1291179
asked 8 hours ago
farmerstevefarmersteve
1715
1715
1
$begingroup$
Possible duplicate of How long could we preserve technology post-apocalypse?
$endgroup$
– JBH
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
I read that question and nobody gave an answer that satisfies my answer. The answer that was selected didn't provide specific technologies to preserve electronics. Let's say this is a museum that wants to keep ancient tech working. I didn't see that in the question you cite. The question possible duplicate question talks about post apocalyptic world. Let's say this is a Utopian world with fully functioning infrastructure.
$endgroup$
– farmersteve
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@JBH The answer space for these two questions is different; answers there are unlikely to be applicable here, and vice versa. These are not duplicates.
$endgroup$
– Frostfyre
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Frostfyre, They appear to be a complete overlap to me. How do they differ?
$endgroup$
– JBH
5 hours ago
4
$begingroup$
@JBH Well, as the question specifically mentions : unattended vs proactive protection.
$endgroup$
– Ville Niemi
5 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
1
$begingroup$
Possible duplicate of How long could we preserve technology post-apocalypse?
$endgroup$
– JBH
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
I read that question and nobody gave an answer that satisfies my answer. The answer that was selected didn't provide specific technologies to preserve electronics. Let's say this is a museum that wants to keep ancient tech working. I didn't see that in the question you cite. The question possible duplicate question talks about post apocalyptic world. Let's say this is a Utopian world with fully functioning infrastructure.
$endgroup$
– farmersteve
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@JBH The answer space for these two questions is different; answers there are unlikely to be applicable here, and vice versa. These are not duplicates.
$endgroup$
– Frostfyre
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Frostfyre, They appear to be a complete overlap to me. How do they differ?
$endgroup$
– JBH
5 hours ago
4
$begingroup$
@JBH Well, as the question specifically mentions : unattended vs proactive protection.
$endgroup$
– Ville Niemi
5 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Possible duplicate of How long could we preserve technology post-apocalypse?
$endgroup$
– JBH
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Possible duplicate of How long could we preserve technology post-apocalypse?
$endgroup$
– JBH
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
I read that question and nobody gave an answer that satisfies my answer. The answer that was selected didn't provide specific technologies to preserve electronics. Let's say this is a museum that wants to keep ancient tech working. I didn't see that in the question you cite. The question possible duplicate question talks about post apocalyptic world. Let's say this is a Utopian world with fully functioning infrastructure.
$endgroup$
– farmersteve
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
I read that question and nobody gave an answer that satisfies my answer. The answer that was selected didn't provide specific technologies to preserve electronics. Let's say this is a museum that wants to keep ancient tech working. I didn't see that in the question you cite. The question possible duplicate question talks about post apocalyptic world. Let's say this is a Utopian world with fully functioning infrastructure.
$endgroup$
– farmersteve
7 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@JBH The answer space for these two questions is different; answers there are unlikely to be applicable here, and vice versa. These are not duplicates.
$endgroup$
– Frostfyre
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@JBH The answer space for these two questions is different; answers there are unlikely to be applicable here, and vice versa. These are not duplicates.
$endgroup$
– Frostfyre
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Frostfyre, They appear to be a complete overlap to me. How do they differ?
$endgroup$
– JBH
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Frostfyre, They appear to be a complete overlap to me. How do they differ?
$endgroup$
– JBH
5 hours ago
4
4
$begingroup$
@JBH Well, as the question specifically mentions : unattended vs proactive protection.
$endgroup$
– Ville Niemi
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@JBH Well, as the question specifically mentions : unattended vs proactive protection.
$endgroup$
– Ville Niemi
5 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
The 5 major things that can degrade electronics are electromagnetism, corrosion, excessive temperatures, vibration, and impact.
Electromagnetism is your number-one risk. It only takes a static shock with 1/2 the amperage it requires to make a visible spark to damage data; also, background EM radiation can degrade data slowly over time. Forensics investigators will often mitigate this risk by putting evidence into a static resistant evidence bag, which can then be placed in a faraday bag escentially blocking out all external EM influence.
The second risk is corrosion. For a device that you are not regularly handling, the only major outside corrosive agent you need to worry about is humidity. An air-tight evidence bag also works well for protecting against this; however, an off the shelf evidence bag may not be rated for 500 years. You would likely need to consult with a polymers expert to design such a bag. Vacuum sealing the bag might be worthwhile, but probably not necessary since the small amount of water vapor locked in the bag will expend itself over time doing negligible corrosion. Batteries (as other answers have pointed out) introduce corrosive elements from within; so, they will need to be drained, stored separately, and possibly rebuilt prior to use.
Excessive heat and cold become the hardest part to control over a 500 year gap. You can not exactly rely on an air conditioning system to be maintained for that long, but if you were to store your device in an underground bunker at a depth of at least 30 feet, mother nature will keep your temperature more or less constant for you.
Vibration mostly just affects things with moving disk drives in them; so, for purposes of preservation, I'm assuming you are talking about stored and not actively used hardware; so, this should be a minimal issue. That said, if you are occasionally powering your device on, it is best to do so on a heavy well secured desk or shelf. Lighter desks/shelves can be vibrated by a computer's fans reducing a computer drive's expected life-time by up to 75%.
Last is impact. If you are storing this device in a room full of engineers going about their daily businesses, eventually someone will knock it off the shelf and break it; so, storing it in a place with very limited human access is also pretty important. This makes keeping an electronic device from breaking within 500 years almost impossible for something that you need to use, but if you're talking about purely storage, you should be able to do this and the above 4 steps and have a pretty good success rate at storing electronics for that long.
In response to Edit #1:
If you are talking about a museum scenario, the mostly likely case would be to copy the data onto a replica, then put the replica on display. Museums rarely put items that fragile and rare on display.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
You cannot combat dopant and metal diffusion. Modern processors, flash memory and RAM are made up of very many very tiny electronic devices. Semiconductor and metal-oxide junction will degrade over five centuries, no matter what you do. Modern electronic devices are simply not made to last centuries.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AlexP If the device is at a very low temperature the diffusion of particles will take longer.
$endgroup$
– user400188
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
You apparently (I didn't read every word) fail to include the breakdown of electrolytic capacitors and storage batteries due to the chemical degradation they are constantly experiencing.
$endgroup$
– Hot Licks
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
TL;DR You cannot.
You need purpose-built items, with specially designed components and maybe even ad hoc designs (PSUs without electrolytic capacitors, etc.), capable of withstanding extreme cold.
Otherwise, there are several chemo-physical processes that would require to be halted.
- Batteries: batteries will degrade over time, and be the first to go. You might want to store the specifications for the required voltage and just hook up a new battery whenever needed.
- Static memories and hard disks: temperature, background radiation and charge loss are all enemies. You can cool down the apparatuses as far as possible, and shield them. Even so, they'll need to be reactivated and "refreshed" periodically. This is, on a longer timescale, what happens orders of magnitude times faster with DRAMs. Otherwise, the iPad won't boot up, because it no longer remembers how.
- Welds. Most electronics being built today will die within fifty years at ambient temperature and pressure, due to the little-known fact that solder islands on circuit boards no longer contain lead or antimony, two poisonous metals that are nonetheless among the few cheap things that can prevent (rather, delay) the formation of metal whiskers. Nickel or gold-plated finishings aren't available on market electronics (some sailors might be familiar with the "brass fluff" growing out of cheap zinc-plated irons. On a much smaller scale, this is the same thing).
- Condenser decay. This afflicts electrolytic capacitors, due to aluminum dioxide breakdown. Extreme cold will delay this process as well as it delays whiskering, but only up to a point - and some components cannot take extreme cold.
- Insulator decay. Several rubbers and plastic insulating compounds are mixed with volatile plasticizers, where "volatile" means that they won't evaporate or significantly run off in fifty or sixty years... but the risk is there and I wouldn't bet on their seeing their hundredth birthday.
Most components aren't engineered to last at all, because the manufacturers know that the items will be replaced anyway inside, at most, of ten years. Just like ol' Henry Ford, who was said to send forensic teams in junkyards to tell him which parts of his cars had not failed so that he could start manufacturing them with cheaper tolerances. Only, this "controlled obsolescence" makes good business sense, and is actually done.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
This is what I figured. Consumer electronics are not meant to last any meaningful amount of time. BUT, if someone (company/government) wanted to make something that lasted a very long time, they could.
$endgroup$
– farmersteve
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@farmersteve absolutely. Military-grade hardware already is way sturdier (and more expensive) than average. They, too, do not care for overlong stand-alone endurance (they make do with spare parts). But it can be done and in some instances is being done (e.g. NASA-spec electronics can be stored in extreme cold and hard vacuum, and are much more radiation resistant. Just look at some Martian rovers....).
$endgroup$
– LSerni
3 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If powered down, electronics can last as long as they don't take physical harm, with the exception of batteries and the bearings in moving parts like fans or platter hard drives.
Batteries, sad to say, can't be made to last that long -- or at least the kind that are useful for portable devices like tablets,. notebooks, and smart phones. There's a type of rechargeable battery that has been shown to last a century, and can likely last much longer than that -- the Edison iron battery -- but they have rather poor energy density. In English, that means a battery that can run a tablet for four or five hours continuously is closer in size to a car battery than the little lithium wafer cells our tablets have now.
Nothing would keep those devices from working on external power, however, so it might be worth storing dry-charged lead-acid batteries, which can last indefinitely before filling with acid.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Capacitors and Resistors also degrade when not in use, and present day commercial capacitors likely won't last a century.
$endgroup$
– GOATNine
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@GOATNine That's true of electrolytics, for certain, but as far as I know not for ceramic, tantalum, or similar solid-state capacitors. There are few if any electrolytics on the surface-mount circuit boards of a modern phone or tablet. I don't know of a mechanism whereby SMD resistors can deteriorate when not powered.
$endgroup$
– Zeiss Ikon
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
That is a good point in normal storage scenarios, but Capacitors and Resistors degrade due to corrosion and temperature. If you store them in a cool, dry, sealed system, they should only corrode to the point that the environment has contaminates to degrade them with extending their life indefinitely to the point of how well you sealed them.
$endgroup$
– Nosajimiki
6 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Nosajimiki Argon purge and constant-temp storage at cool room temp should do it. Might require an archival disassembly and cleaning to ensure there's no (for instance) solder flux left in the device to provide those contaminants.
$endgroup$
– Zeiss Ikon
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In all honesty, electronics are incredibly difficult to preserve, due to the very nature of their components.
Particularly, batteries have a defined shelf life, even when unused. Capacitors and resistors (key components in most electronics) also have a limited lifespan, though they may degrade much more slowly if not in use. Storage media (such as flash memory or hard disks) have a limited life cycle related to the number of read/write operations performed. To have the electronics active, even just displaying a static screen, would likely severely limit the lifespan of any electronic device.
The solution for museum displays would necessarily be restoration/periodic repair. There would have to exist a manufacturing process to produce replacement parts for the duration of the displays existence in the museum.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Resistors aren't usually a life-limited part. Electrolytic capacitors, though, definitely are!
$endgroup$
– Shalvenay
3 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Preserving electronics for 500 years in working order dictates that they not be used at all in that 500 years.
Copper, in particular, gets brittle as current passes through it and it heats up, and the copper traces in circuit boards even more so. The resistance of the copper joints also goes up.
Electromigration is also a problem.
Unfortunately, the only way you will know if they still work is to turn them on, but every time you turn them on, you increase the chances that next time they will not work.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Breaking the device down on a part-by-part basis, and looking at what would be involved in preserving them:
- Integrated circuits: as far as we know, an unpowered integrated circuit in a controlled environment will last indefinitely.
- Resistors, solid-state capacitors, and other discrete components: these have the same indefinite lifespan as integrated circuits, and are generally more tolerant of temperature changes.
- Batteries and electrolytic capacitors: These contain corrosive chemicals that tend to leak on a timescale of decades; lithium-ion batteries additionally tend to destroy themselves if fully discharged. If you're preserving an electronic device in a museum, you're going to need to remove these. When you want to power the device back up, you'll need to install replacements.
- Circuit traces and wires: these tend to slowly corrode from atmospheric moisture. You'll want to store the device in a dry-nitrogen or argon atmosphere.
- Plastic wire insulation: the plasticizer tends to evaporate on a timescale of decades. After a century or so, the insulation will be brittle and may be cracking from shrinkage. You'll want to re-insulate the wires or replace them before powering the device back up.
- Plastic housings: these tend to discolor on a timescale of years to decades. The main cause of this is ultraviolet light, with atmospheric oxygen coming in second. A UV-protected container filled with the dry atmosphere you're using to protect the circuit traces will greatly slow the discoloration, but won't stop it entirely.
- LCD screens: these are vulnerable to excessive heat or cold, and it's likely that UV light will degrade the dyes that give them the ability to display color. The same temperature and UV protection you're using to preserve other parts should be sufficient to protect them as well.
- CRT screens: these depend on a vacuum inside the screen to function. Depending on the quality of manufacture, they may leak to the point of unusability over the course of 500 years or so. You may need to re-establish the vacuum before powering the device back up, which requires specialized equipment.
- Flash/EEPROM memory: the data on these is susceptible to charge leakage on a timescale of decades to centuries. You can reduce the rate of data loss by cooling the device, but the need to avoid freezing the LCD means you can't cool far enough to get a 500-year lifespan. You're going to need to store the data on some more durable medium and re-write it before powering the device back up.
- Hard drives: the lubrication on the bearings tends to stiffen up on a timescale of years. You'll need to clean and re-lubricate them before powering the device back up, and you'll need a cleanroom to do it in.
There's no way to preserve an electronic device for 500 years in a way that permits immediate re-powering at any time. A museum would, however, be able to preserve one that only requires relatively minor maintenance before using, and the techniques involved are ones that museums commonly employ.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "579"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fworldbuilding.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f141854%2fhow-to-preserve-electronics-computers-ipads-phones-for-hundreds-of-years%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
The 5 major things that can degrade electronics are electromagnetism, corrosion, excessive temperatures, vibration, and impact.
Electromagnetism is your number-one risk. It only takes a static shock with 1/2 the amperage it requires to make a visible spark to damage data; also, background EM radiation can degrade data slowly over time. Forensics investigators will often mitigate this risk by putting evidence into a static resistant evidence bag, which can then be placed in a faraday bag escentially blocking out all external EM influence.
The second risk is corrosion. For a device that you are not regularly handling, the only major outside corrosive agent you need to worry about is humidity. An air-tight evidence bag also works well for protecting against this; however, an off the shelf evidence bag may not be rated for 500 years. You would likely need to consult with a polymers expert to design such a bag. Vacuum sealing the bag might be worthwhile, but probably not necessary since the small amount of water vapor locked in the bag will expend itself over time doing negligible corrosion. Batteries (as other answers have pointed out) introduce corrosive elements from within; so, they will need to be drained, stored separately, and possibly rebuilt prior to use.
Excessive heat and cold become the hardest part to control over a 500 year gap. You can not exactly rely on an air conditioning system to be maintained for that long, but if you were to store your device in an underground bunker at a depth of at least 30 feet, mother nature will keep your temperature more or less constant for you.
Vibration mostly just affects things with moving disk drives in them; so, for purposes of preservation, I'm assuming you are talking about stored and not actively used hardware; so, this should be a minimal issue. That said, if you are occasionally powering your device on, it is best to do so on a heavy well secured desk or shelf. Lighter desks/shelves can be vibrated by a computer's fans reducing a computer drive's expected life-time by up to 75%.
Last is impact. If you are storing this device in a room full of engineers going about their daily businesses, eventually someone will knock it off the shelf and break it; so, storing it in a place with very limited human access is also pretty important. This makes keeping an electronic device from breaking within 500 years almost impossible for something that you need to use, but if you're talking about purely storage, you should be able to do this and the above 4 steps and have a pretty good success rate at storing electronics for that long.
In response to Edit #1:
If you are talking about a museum scenario, the mostly likely case would be to copy the data onto a replica, then put the replica on display. Museums rarely put items that fragile and rare on display.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
You cannot combat dopant and metal diffusion. Modern processors, flash memory and RAM are made up of very many very tiny electronic devices. Semiconductor and metal-oxide junction will degrade over five centuries, no matter what you do. Modern electronic devices are simply not made to last centuries.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AlexP If the device is at a very low temperature the diffusion of particles will take longer.
$endgroup$
– user400188
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
You apparently (I didn't read every word) fail to include the breakdown of electrolytic capacitors and storage batteries due to the chemical degradation they are constantly experiencing.
$endgroup$
– Hot Licks
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The 5 major things that can degrade electronics are electromagnetism, corrosion, excessive temperatures, vibration, and impact.
Electromagnetism is your number-one risk. It only takes a static shock with 1/2 the amperage it requires to make a visible spark to damage data; also, background EM radiation can degrade data slowly over time. Forensics investigators will often mitigate this risk by putting evidence into a static resistant evidence bag, which can then be placed in a faraday bag escentially blocking out all external EM influence.
The second risk is corrosion. For a device that you are not regularly handling, the only major outside corrosive agent you need to worry about is humidity. An air-tight evidence bag also works well for protecting against this; however, an off the shelf evidence bag may not be rated for 500 years. You would likely need to consult with a polymers expert to design such a bag. Vacuum sealing the bag might be worthwhile, but probably not necessary since the small amount of water vapor locked in the bag will expend itself over time doing negligible corrosion. Batteries (as other answers have pointed out) introduce corrosive elements from within; so, they will need to be drained, stored separately, and possibly rebuilt prior to use.
Excessive heat and cold become the hardest part to control over a 500 year gap. You can not exactly rely on an air conditioning system to be maintained for that long, but if you were to store your device in an underground bunker at a depth of at least 30 feet, mother nature will keep your temperature more or less constant for you.
Vibration mostly just affects things with moving disk drives in them; so, for purposes of preservation, I'm assuming you are talking about stored and not actively used hardware; so, this should be a minimal issue. That said, if you are occasionally powering your device on, it is best to do so on a heavy well secured desk or shelf. Lighter desks/shelves can be vibrated by a computer's fans reducing a computer drive's expected life-time by up to 75%.
Last is impact. If you are storing this device in a room full of engineers going about their daily businesses, eventually someone will knock it off the shelf and break it; so, storing it in a place with very limited human access is also pretty important. This makes keeping an electronic device from breaking within 500 years almost impossible for something that you need to use, but if you're talking about purely storage, you should be able to do this and the above 4 steps and have a pretty good success rate at storing electronics for that long.
In response to Edit #1:
If you are talking about a museum scenario, the mostly likely case would be to copy the data onto a replica, then put the replica on display. Museums rarely put items that fragile and rare on display.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
You cannot combat dopant and metal diffusion. Modern processors, flash memory and RAM are made up of very many very tiny electronic devices. Semiconductor and metal-oxide junction will degrade over five centuries, no matter what you do. Modern electronic devices are simply not made to last centuries.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AlexP If the device is at a very low temperature the diffusion of particles will take longer.
$endgroup$
– user400188
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
You apparently (I didn't read every word) fail to include the breakdown of electrolytic capacitors and storage batteries due to the chemical degradation they are constantly experiencing.
$endgroup$
– Hot Licks
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The 5 major things that can degrade electronics are electromagnetism, corrosion, excessive temperatures, vibration, and impact.
Electromagnetism is your number-one risk. It only takes a static shock with 1/2 the amperage it requires to make a visible spark to damage data; also, background EM radiation can degrade data slowly over time. Forensics investigators will often mitigate this risk by putting evidence into a static resistant evidence bag, which can then be placed in a faraday bag escentially blocking out all external EM influence.
The second risk is corrosion. For a device that you are not regularly handling, the only major outside corrosive agent you need to worry about is humidity. An air-tight evidence bag also works well for protecting against this; however, an off the shelf evidence bag may not be rated for 500 years. You would likely need to consult with a polymers expert to design such a bag. Vacuum sealing the bag might be worthwhile, but probably not necessary since the small amount of water vapor locked in the bag will expend itself over time doing negligible corrosion. Batteries (as other answers have pointed out) introduce corrosive elements from within; so, they will need to be drained, stored separately, and possibly rebuilt prior to use.
Excessive heat and cold become the hardest part to control over a 500 year gap. You can not exactly rely on an air conditioning system to be maintained for that long, but if you were to store your device in an underground bunker at a depth of at least 30 feet, mother nature will keep your temperature more or less constant for you.
Vibration mostly just affects things with moving disk drives in them; so, for purposes of preservation, I'm assuming you are talking about stored and not actively used hardware; so, this should be a minimal issue. That said, if you are occasionally powering your device on, it is best to do so on a heavy well secured desk or shelf. Lighter desks/shelves can be vibrated by a computer's fans reducing a computer drive's expected life-time by up to 75%.
Last is impact. If you are storing this device in a room full of engineers going about their daily businesses, eventually someone will knock it off the shelf and break it; so, storing it in a place with very limited human access is also pretty important. This makes keeping an electronic device from breaking within 500 years almost impossible for something that you need to use, but if you're talking about purely storage, you should be able to do this and the above 4 steps and have a pretty good success rate at storing electronics for that long.
In response to Edit #1:
If you are talking about a museum scenario, the mostly likely case would be to copy the data onto a replica, then put the replica on display. Museums rarely put items that fragile and rare on display.
$endgroup$
The 5 major things that can degrade electronics are electromagnetism, corrosion, excessive temperatures, vibration, and impact.
Electromagnetism is your number-one risk. It only takes a static shock with 1/2 the amperage it requires to make a visible spark to damage data; also, background EM radiation can degrade data slowly over time. Forensics investigators will often mitigate this risk by putting evidence into a static resistant evidence bag, which can then be placed in a faraday bag escentially blocking out all external EM influence.
The second risk is corrosion. For a device that you are not regularly handling, the only major outside corrosive agent you need to worry about is humidity. An air-tight evidence bag also works well for protecting against this; however, an off the shelf evidence bag may not be rated for 500 years. You would likely need to consult with a polymers expert to design such a bag. Vacuum sealing the bag might be worthwhile, but probably not necessary since the small amount of water vapor locked in the bag will expend itself over time doing negligible corrosion. Batteries (as other answers have pointed out) introduce corrosive elements from within; so, they will need to be drained, stored separately, and possibly rebuilt prior to use.
Excessive heat and cold become the hardest part to control over a 500 year gap. You can not exactly rely on an air conditioning system to be maintained for that long, but if you were to store your device in an underground bunker at a depth of at least 30 feet, mother nature will keep your temperature more or less constant for you.
Vibration mostly just affects things with moving disk drives in them; so, for purposes of preservation, I'm assuming you are talking about stored and not actively used hardware; so, this should be a minimal issue. That said, if you are occasionally powering your device on, it is best to do so on a heavy well secured desk or shelf. Lighter desks/shelves can be vibrated by a computer's fans reducing a computer drive's expected life-time by up to 75%.
Last is impact. If you are storing this device in a room full of engineers going about their daily businesses, eventually someone will knock it off the shelf and break it; so, storing it in a place with very limited human access is also pretty important. This makes keeping an electronic device from breaking within 500 years almost impossible for something that you need to use, but if you're talking about purely storage, you should be able to do this and the above 4 steps and have a pretty good success rate at storing electronics for that long.
In response to Edit #1:
If you are talking about a museum scenario, the mostly likely case would be to copy the data onto a replica, then put the replica on display. Museums rarely put items that fragile and rare on display.
edited 7 hours ago
answered 7 hours ago
NosajimikiNosajimiki
2,182116
2,182116
$begingroup$
You cannot combat dopant and metal diffusion. Modern processors, flash memory and RAM are made up of very many very tiny electronic devices. Semiconductor and metal-oxide junction will degrade over five centuries, no matter what you do. Modern electronic devices are simply not made to last centuries.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AlexP If the device is at a very low temperature the diffusion of particles will take longer.
$endgroup$
– user400188
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
You apparently (I didn't read every word) fail to include the breakdown of electrolytic capacitors and storage batteries due to the chemical degradation they are constantly experiencing.
$endgroup$
– Hot Licks
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You cannot combat dopant and metal diffusion. Modern processors, flash memory and RAM are made up of very many very tiny electronic devices. Semiconductor and metal-oxide junction will degrade over five centuries, no matter what you do. Modern electronic devices are simply not made to last centuries.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AlexP If the device is at a very low temperature the diffusion of particles will take longer.
$endgroup$
– user400188
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
You apparently (I didn't read every word) fail to include the breakdown of electrolytic capacitors and storage batteries due to the chemical degradation they are constantly experiencing.
$endgroup$
– Hot Licks
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
You cannot combat dopant and metal diffusion. Modern processors, flash memory and RAM are made up of very many very tiny electronic devices. Semiconductor and metal-oxide junction will degrade over five centuries, no matter what you do. Modern electronic devices are simply not made to last centuries.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
You cannot combat dopant and metal diffusion. Modern processors, flash memory and RAM are made up of very many very tiny electronic devices. Semiconductor and metal-oxide junction will degrade over five centuries, no matter what you do. Modern electronic devices are simply not made to last centuries.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AlexP If the device is at a very low temperature the diffusion of particles will take longer.
$endgroup$
– user400188
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AlexP If the device is at a very low temperature the diffusion of particles will take longer.
$endgroup$
– user400188
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
You apparently (I didn't read every word) fail to include the breakdown of electrolytic capacitors and storage batteries due to the chemical degradation they are constantly experiencing.
$endgroup$
– Hot Licks
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
You apparently (I didn't read every word) fail to include the breakdown of electrolytic capacitors and storage batteries due to the chemical degradation they are constantly experiencing.
$endgroup$
– Hot Licks
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
TL;DR You cannot.
You need purpose-built items, with specially designed components and maybe even ad hoc designs (PSUs without electrolytic capacitors, etc.), capable of withstanding extreme cold.
Otherwise, there are several chemo-physical processes that would require to be halted.
- Batteries: batteries will degrade over time, and be the first to go. You might want to store the specifications for the required voltage and just hook up a new battery whenever needed.
- Static memories and hard disks: temperature, background radiation and charge loss are all enemies. You can cool down the apparatuses as far as possible, and shield them. Even so, they'll need to be reactivated and "refreshed" periodically. This is, on a longer timescale, what happens orders of magnitude times faster with DRAMs. Otherwise, the iPad won't boot up, because it no longer remembers how.
- Welds. Most electronics being built today will die within fifty years at ambient temperature and pressure, due to the little-known fact that solder islands on circuit boards no longer contain lead or antimony, two poisonous metals that are nonetheless among the few cheap things that can prevent (rather, delay) the formation of metal whiskers. Nickel or gold-plated finishings aren't available on market electronics (some sailors might be familiar with the "brass fluff" growing out of cheap zinc-plated irons. On a much smaller scale, this is the same thing).
- Condenser decay. This afflicts electrolytic capacitors, due to aluminum dioxide breakdown. Extreme cold will delay this process as well as it delays whiskering, but only up to a point - and some components cannot take extreme cold.
- Insulator decay. Several rubbers and plastic insulating compounds are mixed with volatile plasticizers, where "volatile" means that they won't evaporate or significantly run off in fifty or sixty years... but the risk is there and I wouldn't bet on their seeing their hundredth birthday.
Most components aren't engineered to last at all, because the manufacturers know that the items will be replaced anyway inside, at most, of ten years. Just like ol' Henry Ford, who was said to send forensic teams in junkyards to tell him which parts of his cars had not failed so that he could start manufacturing them with cheaper tolerances. Only, this "controlled obsolescence" makes good business sense, and is actually done.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
This is what I figured. Consumer electronics are not meant to last any meaningful amount of time. BUT, if someone (company/government) wanted to make something that lasted a very long time, they could.
$endgroup$
– farmersteve
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@farmersteve absolutely. Military-grade hardware already is way sturdier (and more expensive) than average. They, too, do not care for overlong stand-alone endurance (they make do with spare parts). But it can be done and in some instances is being done (e.g. NASA-spec electronics can be stored in extreme cold and hard vacuum, and are much more radiation resistant. Just look at some Martian rovers....).
$endgroup$
– LSerni
3 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
TL;DR You cannot.
You need purpose-built items, with specially designed components and maybe even ad hoc designs (PSUs without electrolytic capacitors, etc.), capable of withstanding extreme cold.
Otherwise, there are several chemo-physical processes that would require to be halted.
- Batteries: batteries will degrade over time, and be the first to go. You might want to store the specifications for the required voltage and just hook up a new battery whenever needed.
- Static memories and hard disks: temperature, background radiation and charge loss are all enemies. You can cool down the apparatuses as far as possible, and shield them. Even so, they'll need to be reactivated and "refreshed" periodically. This is, on a longer timescale, what happens orders of magnitude times faster with DRAMs. Otherwise, the iPad won't boot up, because it no longer remembers how.
- Welds. Most electronics being built today will die within fifty years at ambient temperature and pressure, due to the little-known fact that solder islands on circuit boards no longer contain lead or antimony, two poisonous metals that are nonetheless among the few cheap things that can prevent (rather, delay) the formation of metal whiskers. Nickel or gold-plated finishings aren't available on market electronics (some sailors might be familiar with the "brass fluff" growing out of cheap zinc-plated irons. On a much smaller scale, this is the same thing).
- Condenser decay. This afflicts electrolytic capacitors, due to aluminum dioxide breakdown. Extreme cold will delay this process as well as it delays whiskering, but only up to a point - and some components cannot take extreme cold.
- Insulator decay. Several rubbers and plastic insulating compounds are mixed with volatile plasticizers, where "volatile" means that they won't evaporate or significantly run off in fifty or sixty years... but the risk is there and I wouldn't bet on their seeing their hundredth birthday.
Most components aren't engineered to last at all, because the manufacturers know that the items will be replaced anyway inside, at most, of ten years. Just like ol' Henry Ford, who was said to send forensic teams in junkyards to tell him which parts of his cars had not failed so that he could start manufacturing them with cheaper tolerances. Only, this "controlled obsolescence" makes good business sense, and is actually done.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
This is what I figured. Consumer electronics are not meant to last any meaningful amount of time. BUT, if someone (company/government) wanted to make something that lasted a very long time, they could.
$endgroup$
– farmersteve
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@farmersteve absolutely. Military-grade hardware already is way sturdier (and more expensive) than average. They, too, do not care for overlong stand-alone endurance (they make do with spare parts). But it can be done and in some instances is being done (e.g. NASA-spec electronics can be stored in extreme cold and hard vacuum, and are much more radiation resistant. Just look at some Martian rovers....).
$endgroup$
– LSerni
3 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
TL;DR You cannot.
You need purpose-built items, with specially designed components and maybe even ad hoc designs (PSUs without electrolytic capacitors, etc.), capable of withstanding extreme cold.
Otherwise, there are several chemo-physical processes that would require to be halted.
- Batteries: batteries will degrade over time, and be the first to go. You might want to store the specifications for the required voltage and just hook up a new battery whenever needed.
- Static memories and hard disks: temperature, background radiation and charge loss are all enemies. You can cool down the apparatuses as far as possible, and shield them. Even so, they'll need to be reactivated and "refreshed" periodically. This is, on a longer timescale, what happens orders of magnitude times faster with DRAMs. Otherwise, the iPad won't boot up, because it no longer remembers how.
- Welds. Most electronics being built today will die within fifty years at ambient temperature and pressure, due to the little-known fact that solder islands on circuit boards no longer contain lead or antimony, two poisonous metals that are nonetheless among the few cheap things that can prevent (rather, delay) the formation of metal whiskers. Nickel or gold-plated finishings aren't available on market electronics (some sailors might be familiar with the "brass fluff" growing out of cheap zinc-plated irons. On a much smaller scale, this is the same thing).
- Condenser decay. This afflicts electrolytic capacitors, due to aluminum dioxide breakdown. Extreme cold will delay this process as well as it delays whiskering, but only up to a point - and some components cannot take extreme cold.
- Insulator decay. Several rubbers and plastic insulating compounds are mixed with volatile plasticizers, where "volatile" means that they won't evaporate or significantly run off in fifty or sixty years... but the risk is there and I wouldn't bet on their seeing their hundredth birthday.
Most components aren't engineered to last at all, because the manufacturers know that the items will be replaced anyway inside, at most, of ten years. Just like ol' Henry Ford, who was said to send forensic teams in junkyards to tell him which parts of his cars had not failed so that he could start manufacturing them with cheaper tolerances. Only, this "controlled obsolescence" makes good business sense, and is actually done.
$endgroup$
TL;DR You cannot.
You need purpose-built items, with specially designed components and maybe even ad hoc designs (PSUs without electrolytic capacitors, etc.), capable of withstanding extreme cold.
Otherwise, there are several chemo-physical processes that would require to be halted.
- Batteries: batteries will degrade over time, and be the first to go. You might want to store the specifications for the required voltage and just hook up a new battery whenever needed.
- Static memories and hard disks: temperature, background radiation and charge loss are all enemies. You can cool down the apparatuses as far as possible, and shield them. Even so, they'll need to be reactivated and "refreshed" periodically. This is, on a longer timescale, what happens orders of magnitude times faster with DRAMs. Otherwise, the iPad won't boot up, because it no longer remembers how.
- Welds. Most electronics being built today will die within fifty years at ambient temperature and pressure, due to the little-known fact that solder islands on circuit boards no longer contain lead or antimony, two poisonous metals that are nonetheless among the few cheap things that can prevent (rather, delay) the formation of metal whiskers. Nickel or gold-plated finishings aren't available on market electronics (some sailors might be familiar with the "brass fluff" growing out of cheap zinc-plated irons. On a much smaller scale, this is the same thing).
- Condenser decay. This afflicts electrolytic capacitors, due to aluminum dioxide breakdown. Extreme cold will delay this process as well as it delays whiskering, but only up to a point - and some components cannot take extreme cold.
- Insulator decay. Several rubbers and plastic insulating compounds are mixed with volatile plasticizers, where "volatile" means that they won't evaporate or significantly run off in fifty or sixty years... but the risk is there and I wouldn't bet on their seeing their hundredth birthday.
Most components aren't engineered to last at all, because the manufacturers know that the items will be replaced anyway inside, at most, of ten years. Just like ol' Henry Ford, who was said to send forensic teams in junkyards to tell him which parts of his cars had not failed so that he could start manufacturing them with cheaper tolerances. Only, this "controlled obsolescence" makes good business sense, and is actually done.
answered 4 hours ago
LSerniLSerni
28.7k25192
28.7k25192
$begingroup$
This is what I figured. Consumer electronics are not meant to last any meaningful amount of time. BUT, if someone (company/government) wanted to make something that lasted a very long time, they could.
$endgroup$
– farmersteve
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@farmersteve absolutely. Military-grade hardware already is way sturdier (and more expensive) than average. They, too, do not care for overlong stand-alone endurance (they make do with spare parts). But it can be done and in some instances is being done (e.g. NASA-spec electronics can be stored in extreme cold and hard vacuum, and are much more radiation resistant. Just look at some Martian rovers....).
$endgroup$
– LSerni
3 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This is what I figured. Consumer electronics are not meant to last any meaningful amount of time. BUT, if someone (company/government) wanted to make something that lasted a very long time, they could.
$endgroup$
– farmersteve
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@farmersteve absolutely. Military-grade hardware already is way sturdier (and more expensive) than average. They, too, do not care for overlong stand-alone endurance (they make do with spare parts). But it can be done and in some instances is being done (e.g. NASA-spec electronics can be stored in extreme cold and hard vacuum, and are much more radiation resistant. Just look at some Martian rovers....).
$endgroup$
– LSerni
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
This is what I figured. Consumer electronics are not meant to last any meaningful amount of time. BUT, if someone (company/government) wanted to make something that lasted a very long time, they could.
$endgroup$
– farmersteve
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
This is what I figured. Consumer electronics are not meant to last any meaningful amount of time. BUT, if someone (company/government) wanted to make something that lasted a very long time, they could.
$endgroup$
– farmersteve
3 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@farmersteve absolutely. Military-grade hardware already is way sturdier (and more expensive) than average. They, too, do not care for overlong stand-alone endurance (they make do with spare parts). But it can be done and in some instances is being done (e.g. NASA-spec electronics can be stored in extreme cold and hard vacuum, and are much more radiation resistant. Just look at some Martian rovers....).
$endgroup$
– LSerni
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@farmersteve absolutely. Military-grade hardware already is way sturdier (and more expensive) than average. They, too, do not care for overlong stand-alone endurance (they make do with spare parts). But it can be done and in some instances is being done (e.g. NASA-spec electronics can be stored in extreme cold and hard vacuum, and are much more radiation resistant. Just look at some Martian rovers....).
$endgroup$
– LSerni
3 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If powered down, electronics can last as long as they don't take physical harm, with the exception of batteries and the bearings in moving parts like fans or platter hard drives.
Batteries, sad to say, can't be made to last that long -- or at least the kind that are useful for portable devices like tablets,. notebooks, and smart phones. There's a type of rechargeable battery that has been shown to last a century, and can likely last much longer than that -- the Edison iron battery -- but they have rather poor energy density. In English, that means a battery that can run a tablet for four or five hours continuously is closer in size to a car battery than the little lithium wafer cells our tablets have now.
Nothing would keep those devices from working on external power, however, so it might be worth storing dry-charged lead-acid batteries, which can last indefinitely before filling with acid.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Capacitors and Resistors also degrade when not in use, and present day commercial capacitors likely won't last a century.
$endgroup$
– GOATNine
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@GOATNine That's true of electrolytics, for certain, but as far as I know not for ceramic, tantalum, or similar solid-state capacitors. There are few if any electrolytics on the surface-mount circuit boards of a modern phone or tablet. I don't know of a mechanism whereby SMD resistors can deteriorate when not powered.
$endgroup$
– Zeiss Ikon
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
That is a good point in normal storage scenarios, but Capacitors and Resistors degrade due to corrosion and temperature. If you store them in a cool, dry, sealed system, they should only corrode to the point that the environment has contaminates to degrade them with extending their life indefinitely to the point of how well you sealed them.
$endgroup$
– Nosajimiki
6 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Nosajimiki Argon purge and constant-temp storage at cool room temp should do it. Might require an archival disassembly and cleaning to ensure there's no (for instance) solder flux left in the device to provide those contaminants.
$endgroup$
– Zeiss Ikon
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If powered down, electronics can last as long as they don't take physical harm, with the exception of batteries and the bearings in moving parts like fans or platter hard drives.
Batteries, sad to say, can't be made to last that long -- or at least the kind that are useful for portable devices like tablets,. notebooks, and smart phones. There's a type of rechargeable battery that has been shown to last a century, and can likely last much longer than that -- the Edison iron battery -- but they have rather poor energy density. In English, that means a battery that can run a tablet for four or five hours continuously is closer in size to a car battery than the little lithium wafer cells our tablets have now.
Nothing would keep those devices from working on external power, however, so it might be worth storing dry-charged lead-acid batteries, which can last indefinitely before filling with acid.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Capacitors and Resistors also degrade when not in use, and present day commercial capacitors likely won't last a century.
$endgroup$
– GOATNine
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@GOATNine That's true of electrolytics, for certain, but as far as I know not for ceramic, tantalum, or similar solid-state capacitors. There are few if any electrolytics on the surface-mount circuit boards of a modern phone or tablet. I don't know of a mechanism whereby SMD resistors can deteriorate when not powered.
$endgroup$
– Zeiss Ikon
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
That is a good point in normal storage scenarios, but Capacitors and Resistors degrade due to corrosion and temperature. If you store them in a cool, dry, sealed system, they should only corrode to the point that the environment has contaminates to degrade them with extending their life indefinitely to the point of how well you sealed them.
$endgroup$
– Nosajimiki
6 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Nosajimiki Argon purge and constant-temp storage at cool room temp should do it. Might require an archival disassembly and cleaning to ensure there's no (for instance) solder flux left in the device to provide those contaminants.
$endgroup$
– Zeiss Ikon
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If powered down, electronics can last as long as they don't take physical harm, with the exception of batteries and the bearings in moving parts like fans or platter hard drives.
Batteries, sad to say, can't be made to last that long -- or at least the kind that are useful for portable devices like tablets,. notebooks, and smart phones. There's a type of rechargeable battery that has been shown to last a century, and can likely last much longer than that -- the Edison iron battery -- but they have rather poor energy density. In English, that means a battery that can run a tablet for four or five hours continuously is closer in size to a car battery than the little lithium wafer cells our tablets have now.
Nothing would keep those devices from working on external power, however, so it might be worth storing dry-charged lead-acid batteries, which can last indefinitely before filling with acid.
$endgroup$
If powered down, electronics can last as long as they don't take physical harm, with the exception of batteries and the bearings in moving parts like fans or platter hard drives.
Batteries, sad to say, can't be made to last that long -- or at least the kind that are useful for portable devices like tablets,. notebooks, and smart phones. There's a type of rechargeable battery that has been shown to last a century, and can likely last much longer than that -- the Edison iron battery -- but they have rather poor energy density. In English, that means a battery that can run a tablet for four or five hours continuously is closer in size to a car battery than the little lithium wafer cells our tablets have now.
Nothing would keep those devices from working on external power, however, so it might be worth storing dry-charged lead-acid batteries, which can last indefinitely before filling with acid.
answered 7 hours ago
Zeiss IkonZeiss Ikon
1,868115
1,868115
1
$begingroup$
Capacitors and Resistors also degrade when not in use, and present day commercial capacitors likely won't last a century.
$endgroup$
– GOATNine
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@GOATNine That's true of electrolytics, for certain, but as far as I know not for ceramic, tantalum, or similar solid-state capacitors. There are few if any electrolytics on the surface-mount circuit boards of a modern phone or tablet. I don't know of a mechanism whereby SMD resistors can deteriorate when not powered.
$endgroup$
– Zeiss Ikon
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
That is a good point in normal storage scenarios, but Capacitors and Resistors degrade due to corrosion and temperature. If you store them in a cool, dry, sealed system, they should only corrode to the point that the environment has contaminates to degrade them with extending their life indefinitely to the point of how well you sealed them.
$endgroup$
– Nosajimiki
6 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Nosajimiki Argon purge and constant-temp storage at cool room temp should do it. Might require an archival disassembly and cleaning to ensure there's no (for instance) solder flux left in the device to provide those contaminants.
$endgroup$
– Zeiss Ikon
6 hours ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
Capacitors and Resistors also degrade when not in use, and present day commercial capacitors likely won't last a century.
$endgroup$
– GOATNine
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@GOATNine That's true of electrolytics, for certain, but as far as I know not for ceramic, tantalum, or similar solid-state capacitors. There are few if any electrolytics on the surface-mount circuit boards of a modern phone or tablet. I don't know of a mechanism whereby SMD resistors can deteriorate when not powered.
$endgroup$
– Zeiss Ikon
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
That is a good point in normal storage scenarios, but Capacitors and Resistors degrade due to corrosion and temperature. If you store them in a cool, dry, sealed system, they should only corrode to the point that the environment has contaminates to degrade them with extending their life indefinitely to the point of how well you sealed them.
$endgroup$
– Nosajimiki
6 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Nosajimiki Argon purge and constant-temp storage at cool room temp should do it. Might require an archival disassembly and cleaning to ensure there's no (for instance) solder flux left in the device to provide those contaminants.
$endgroup$
– Zeiss Ikon
6 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Capacitors and Resistors also degrade when not in use, and present day commercial capacitors likely won't last a century.
$endgroup$
– GOATNine
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Capacitors and Resistors also degrade when not in use, and present day commercial capacitors likely won't last a century.
$endgroup$
– GOATNine
7 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@GOATNine That's true of electrolytics, for certain, but as far as I know not for ceramic, tantalum, or similar solid-state capacitors. There are few if any electrolytics on the surface-mount circuit boards of a modern phone or tablet. I don't know of a mechanism whereby SMD resistors can deteriorate when not powered.
$endgroup$
– Zeiss Ikon
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@GOATNine That's true of electrolytics, for certain, but as far as I know not for ceramic, tantalum, or similar solid-state capacitors. There are few if any electrolytics on the surface-mount circuit boards of a modern phone or tablet. I don't know of a mechanism whereby SMD resistors can deteriorate when not powered.
$endgroup$
– Zeiss Ikon
6 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
That is a good point in normal storage scenarios, but Capacitors and Resistors degrade due to corrosion and temperature. If you store them in a cool, dry, sealed system, they should only corrode to the point that the environment has contaminates to degrade them with extending their life indefinitely to the point of how well you sealed them.
$endgroup$
– Nosajimiki
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
That is a good point in normal storage scenarios, but Capacitors and Resistors degrade due to corrosion and temperature. If you store them in a cool, dry, sealed system, they should only corrode to the point that the environment has contaminates to degrade them with extending their life indefinitely to the point of how well you sealed them.
$endgroup$
– Nosajimiki
6 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
@Nosajimiki Argon purge and constant-temp storage at cool room temp should do it. Might require an archival disassembly and cleaning to ensure there's no (for instance) solder flux left in the device to provide those contaminants.
$endgroup$
– Zeiss Ikon
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Nosajimiki Argon purge and constant-temp storage at cool room temp should do it. Might require an archival disassembly and cleaning to ensure there's no (for instance) solder flux left in the device to provide those contaminants.
$endgroup$
– Zeiss Ikon
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In all honesty, electronics are incredibly difficult to preserve, due to the very nature of their components.
Particularly, batteries have a defined shelf life, even when unused. Capacitors and resistors (key components in most electronics) also have a limited lifespan, though they may degrade much more slowly if not in use. Storage media (such as flash memory or hard disks) have a limited life cycle related to the number of read/write operations performed. To have the electronics active, even just displaying a static screen, would likely severely limit the lifespan of any electronic device.
The solution for museum displays would necessarily be restoration/periodic repair. There would have to exist a manufacturing process to produce replacement parts for the duration of the displays existence in the museum.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Resistors aren't usually a life-limited part. Electrolytic capacitors, though, definitely are!
$endgroup$
– Shalvenay
3 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In all honesty, electronics are incredibly difficult to preserve, due to the very nature of their components.
Particularly, batteries have a defined shelf life, even when unused. Capacitors and resistors (key components in most electronics) also have a limited lifespan, though they may degrade much more slowly if not in use. Storage media (such as flash memory or hard disks) have a limited life cycle related to the number of read/write operations performed. To have the electronics active, even just displaying a static screen, would likely severely limit the lifespan of any electronic device.
The solution for museum displays would necessarily be restoration/periodic repair. There would have to exist a manufacturing process to produce replacement parts for the duration of the displays existence in the museum.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Resistors aren't usually a life-limited part. Electrolytic capacitors, though, definitely are!
$endgroup$
– Shalvenay
3 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In all honesty, electronics are incredibly difficult to preserve, due to the very nature of their components.
Particularly, batteries have a defined shelf life, even when unused. Capacitors and resistors (key components in most electronics) also have a limited lifespan, though they may degrade much more slowly if not in use. Storage media (such as flash memory or hard disks) have a limited life cycle related to the number of read/write operations performed. To have the electronics active, even just displaying a static screen, would likely severely limit the lifespan of any electronic device.
The solution for museum displays would necessarily be restoration/periodic repair. There would have to exist a manufacturing process to produce replacement parts for the duration of the displays existence in the museum.
$endgroup$
In all honesty, electronics are incredibly difficult to preserve, due to the very nature of their components.
Particularly, batteries have a defined shelf life, even when unused. Capacitors and resistors (key components in most electronics) also have a limited lifespan, though they may degrade much more slowly if not in use. Storage media (such as flash memory or hard disks) have a limited life cycle related to the number of read/write operations performed. To have the electronics active, even just displaying a static screen, would likely severely limit the lifespan of any electronic device.
The solution for museum displays would necessarily be restoration/periodic repair. There would have to exist a manufacturing process to produce replacement parts for the duration of the displays existence in the museum.
answered 7 hours ago
GOATNineGOATNine
812213
812213
$begingroup$
Resistors aren't usually a life-limited part. Electrolytic capacitors, though, definitely are!
$endgroup$
– Shalvenay
3 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Resistors aren't usually a life-limited part. Electrolytic capacitors, though, definitely are!
$endgroup$
– Shalvenay
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Resistors aren't usually a life-limited part. Electrolytic capacitors, though, definitely are!
$endgroup$
– Shalvenay
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Resistors aren't usually a life-limited part. Electrolytic capacitors, though, definitely are!
$endgroup$
– Shalvenay
3 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Preserving electronics for 500 years in working order dictates that they not be used at all in that 500 years.
Copper, in particular, gets brittle as current passes through it and it heats up, and the copper traces in circuit boards even more so. The resistance of the copper joints also goes up.
Electromigration is also a problem.
Unfortunately, the only way you will know if they still work is to turn them on, but every time you turn them on, you increase the chances that next time they will not work.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Preserving electronics for 500 years in working order dictates that they not be used at all in that 500 years.
Copper, in particular, gets brittle as current passes through it and it heats up, and the copper traces in circuit boards even more so. The resistance of the copper joints also goes up.
Electromigration is also a problem.
Unfortunately, the only way you will know if they still work is to turn them on, but every time you turn them on, you increase the chances that next time they will not work.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Preserving electronics for 500 years in working order dictates that they not be used at all in that 500 years.
Copper, in particular, gets brittle as current passes through it and it heats up, and the copper traces in circuit boards even more so. The resistance of the copper joints also goes up.
Electromigration is also a problem.
Unfortunately, the only way you will know if they still work is to turn them on, but every time you turn them on, you increase the chances that next time they will not work.
$endgroup$
Preserving electronics for 500 years in working order dictates that they not be used at all in that 500 years.
Copper, in particular, gets brittle as current passes through it and it heats up, and the copper traces in circuit boards even more so. The resistance of the copper joints also goes up.
Electromigration is also a problem.
Unfortunately, the only way you will know if they still work is to turn them on, but every time you turn them on, you increase the chances that next time they will not work.
answered 6 hours ago
Justin Thyme the SecondJustin Thyme the Second
7757
7757
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Breaking the device down on a part-by-part basis, and looking at what would be involved in preserving them:
- Integrated circuits: as far as we know, an unpowered integrated circuit in a controlled environment will last indefinitely.
- Resistors, solid-state capacitors, and other discrete components: these have the same indefinite lifespan as integrated circuits, and are generally more tolerant of temperature changes.
- Batteries and electrolytic capacitors: These contain corrosive chemicals that tend to leak on a timescale of decades; lithium-ion batteries additionally tend to destroy themselves if fully discharged. If you're preserving an electronic device in a museum, you're going to need to remove these. When you want to power the device back up, you'll need to install replacements.
- Circuit traces and wires: these tend to slowly corrode from atmospheric moisture. You'll want to store the device in a dry-nitrogen or argon atmosphere.
- Plastic wire insulation: the plasticizer tends to evaporate on a timescale of decades. After a century or so, the insulation will be brittle and may be cracking from shrinkage. You'll want to re-insulate the wires or replace them before powering the device back up.
- Plastic housings: these tend to discolor on a timescale of years to decades. The main cause of this is ultraviolet light, with atmospheric oxygen coming in second. A UV-protected container filled with the dry atmosphere you're using to protect the circuit traces will greatly slow the discoloration, but won't stop it entirely.
- LCD screens: these are vulnerable to excessive heat or cold, and it's likely that UV light will degrade the dyes that give them the ability to display color. The same temperature and UV protection you're using to preserve other parts should be sufficient to protect them as well.
- CRT screens: these depend on a vacuum inside the screen to function. Depending on the quality of manufacture, they may leak to the point of unusability over the course of 500 years or so. You may need to re-establish the vacuum before powering the device back up, which requires specialized equipment.
- Flash/EEPROM memory: the data on these is susceptible to charge leakage on a timescale of decades to centuries. You can reduce the rate of data loss by cooling the device, but the need to avoid freezing the LCD means you can't cool far enough to get a 500-year lifespan. You're going to need to store the data on some more durable medium and re-write it before powering the device back up.
- Hard drives: the lubrication on the bearings tends to stiffen up on a timescale of years. You'll need to clean and re-lubricate them before powering the device back up, and you'll need a cleanroom to do it in.
There's no way to preserve an electronic device for 500 years in a way that permits immediate re-powering at any time. A museum would, however, be able to preserve one that only requires relatively minor maintenance before using, and the techniques involved are ones that museums commonly employ.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Breaking the device down on a part-by-part basis, and looking at what would be involved in preserving them:
- Integrated circuits: as far as we know, an unpowered integrated circuit in a controlled environment will last indefinitely.
- Resistors, solid-state capacitors, and other discrete components: these have the same indefinite lifespan as integrated circuits, and are generally more tolerant of temperature changes.
- Batteries and electrolytic capacitors: These contain corrosive chemicals that tend to leak on a timescale of decades; lithium-ion batteries additionally tend to destroy themselves if fully discharged. If you're preserving an electronic device in a museum, you're going to need to remove these. When you want to power the device back up, you'll need to install replacements.
- Circuit traces and wires: these tend to slowly corrode from atmospheric moisture. You'll want to store the device in a dry-nitrogen or argon atmosphere.
- Plastic wire insulation: the plasticizer tends to evaporate on a timescale of decades. After a century or so, the insulation will be brittle and may be cracking from shrinkage. You'll want to re-insulate the wires or replace them before powering the device back up.
- Plastic housings: these tend to discolor on a timescale of years to decades. The main cause of this is ultraviolet light, with atmospheric oxygen coming in second. A UV-protected container filled with the dry atmosphere you're using to protect the circuit traces will greatly slow the discoloration, but won't stop it entirely.
- LCD screens: these are vulnerable to excessive heat or cold, and it's likely that UV light will degrade the dyes that give them the ability to display color. The same temperature and UV protection you're using to preserve other parts should be sufficient to protect them as well.
- CRT screens: these depend on a vacuum inside the screen to function. Depending on the quality of manufacture, they may leak to the point of unusability over the course of 500 years or so. You may need to re-establish the vacuum before powering the device back up, which requires specialized equipment.
- Flash/EEPROM memory: the data on these is susceptible to charge leakage on a timescale of decades to centuries. You can reduce the rate of data loss by cooling the device, but the need to avoid freezing the LCD means you can't cool far enough to get a 500-year lifespan. You're going to need to store the data on some more durable medium and re-write it before powering the device back up.
- Hard drives: the lubrication on the bearings tends to stiffen up on a timescale of years. You'll need to clean and re-lubricate them before powering the device back up, and you'll need a cleanroom to do it in.
There's no way to preserve an electronic device for 500 years in a way that permits immediate re-powering at any time. A museum would, however, be able to preserve one that only requires relatively minor maintenance before using, and the techniques involved are ones that museums commonly employ.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Breaking the device down on a part-by-part basis, and looking at what would be involved in preserving them:
- Integrated circuits: as far as we know, an unpowered integrated circuit in a controlled environment will last indefinitely.
- Resistors, solid-state capacitors, and other discrete components: these have the same indefinite lifespan as integrated circuits, and are generally more tolerant of temperature changes.
- Batteries and electrolytic capacitors: These contain corrosive chemicals that tend to leak on a timescale of decades; lithium-ion batteries additionally tend to destroy themselves if fully discharged. If you're preserving an electronic device in a museum, you're going to need to remove these. When you want to power the device back up, you'll need to install replacements.
- Circuit traces and wires: these tend to slowly corrode from atmospheric moisture. You'll want to store the device in a dry-nitrogen or argon atmosphere.
- Plastic wire insulation: the plasticizer tends to evaporate on a timescale of decades. After a century or so, the insulation will be brittle and may be cracking from shrinkage. You'll want to re-insulate the wires or replace them before powering the device back up.
- Plastic housings: these tend to discolor on a timescale of years to decades. The main cause of this is ultraviolet light, with atmospheric oxygen coming in second. A UV-protected container filled with the dry atmosphere you're using to protect the circuit traces will greatly slow the discoloration, but won't stop it entirely.
- LCD screens: these are vulnerable to excessive heat or cold, and it's likely that UV light will degrade the dyes that give them the ability to display color. The same temperature and UV protection you're using to preserve other parts should be sufficient to protect them as well.
- CRT screens: these depend on a vacuum inside the screen to function. Depending on the quality of manufacture, they may leak to the point of unusability over the course of 500 years or so. You may need to re-establish the vacuum before powering the device back up, which requires specialized equipment.
- Flash/EEPROM memory: the data on these is susceptible to charge leakage on a timescale of decades to centuries. You can reduce the rate of data loss by cooling the device, but the need to avoid freezing the LCD means you can't cool far enough to get a 500-year lifespan. You're going to need to store the data on some more durable medium and re-write it before powering the device back up.
- Hard drives: the lubrication on the bearings tends to stiffen up on a timescale of years. You'll need to clean and re-lubricate them before powering the device back up, and you'll need a cleanroom to do it in.
There's no way to preserve an electronic device for 500 years in a way that permits immediate re-powering at any time. A museum would, however, be able to preserve one that only requires relatively minor maintenance before using, and the techniques involved are ones that museums commonly employ.
$endgroup$
Breaking the device down on a part-by-part basis, and looking at what would be involved in preserving them:
- Integrated circuits: as far as we know, an unpowered integrated circuit in a controlled environment will last indefinitely.
- Resistors, solid-state capacitors, and other discrete components: these have the same indefinite lifespan as integrated circuits, and are generally more tolerant of temperature changes.
- Batteries and electrolytic capacitors: These contain corrosive chemicals that tend to leak on a timescale of decades; lithium-ion batteries additionally tend to destroy themselves if fully discharged. If you're preserving an electronic device in a museum, you're going to need to remove these. When you want to power the device back up, you'll need to install replacements.
- Circuit traces and wires: these tend to slowly corrode from atmospheric moisture. You'll want to store the device in a dry-nitrogen or argon atmosphere.
- Plastic wire insulation: the plasticizer tends to evaporate on a timescale of decades. After a century or so, the insulation will be brittle and may be cracking from shrinkage. You'll want to re-insulate the wires or replace them before powering the device back up.
- Plastic housings: these tend to discolor on a timescale of years to decades. The main cause of this is ultraviolet light, with atmospheric oxygen coming in second. A UV-protected container filled with the dry atmosphere you're using to protect the circuit traces will greatly slow the discoloration, but won't stop it entirely.
- LCD screens: these are vulnerable to excessive heat or cold, and it's likely that UV light will degrade the dyes that give them the ability to display color. The same temperature and UV protection you're using to preserve other parts should be sufficient to protect them as well.
- CRT screens: these depend on a vacuum inside the screen to function. Depending on the quality of manufacture, they may leak to the point of unusability over the course of 500 years or so. You may need to re-establish the vacuum before powering the device back up, which requires specialized equipment.
- Flash/EEPROM memory: the data on these is susceptible to charge leakage on a timescale of decades to centuries. You can reduce the rate of data loss by cooling the device, but the need to avoid freezing the LCD means you can't cool far enough to get a 500-year lifespan. You're going to need to store the data on some more durable medium and re-write it before powering the device back up.
- Hard drives: the lubrication on the bearings tends to stiffen up on a timescale of years. You'll need to clean and re-lubricate them before powering the device back up, and you'll need a cleanroom to do it in.
There's no way to preserve an electronic device for 500 years in a way that permits immediate re-powering at any time. A museum would, however, be able to preserve one that only requires relatively minor maintenance before using, and the techniques involved are ones that museums commonly employ.
answered 1 hour ago
MarkMark
13.3k3164
13.3k3164
add a comment |
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Worldbuilding Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fworldbuilding.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f141854%2fhow-to-preserve-electronics-computers-ipads-phones-for-hundreds-of-years%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
1
$begingroup$
Possible duplicate of How long could we preserve technology post-apocalypse?
$endgroup$
– JBH
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
I read that question and nobody gave an answer that satisfies my answer. The answer that was selected didn't provide specific technologies to preserve electronics. Let's say this is a museum that wants to keep ancient tech working. I didn't see that in the question you cite. The question possible duplicate question talks about post apocalyptic world. Let's say this is a Utopian world with fully functioning infrastructure.
$endgroup$
– farmersteve
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@JBH The answer space for these two questions is different; answers there are unlikely to be applicable here, and vice versa. These are not duplicates.
$endgroup$
– Frostfyre
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Frostfyre, They appear to be a complete overlap to me. How do they differ?
$endgroup$
– JBH
5 hours ago
4
$begingroup$
@JBH Well, as the question specifically mentions : unattended vs proactive protection.
$endgroup$
– Ville Niemi
5 hours ago