A hang glider, sudden unexpected lift to 25,000 feet altitude, what could do this?
$begingroup$
This is the third in a series of 5 (at this point) questions. It's not relevant to this question, but for anyone who's curious this was the first, this the second.
Conditions for this question are:
Earth-normal atmospheric pressure/content. (Or close)
I'm aware that over 38,000 feet has been achieved by exploiting thermals. This slow and steady way is not what I need.
I need the ascent to be sudden and unexpected (for an arguably inexperienced pilot), be it; meteorological, geothermal or by some other (not fantasy) means.
It should not kill the pilot - if you can plausably argue a volcanic erruption - then fine but the pilot must survive (unconsciousness is just fine though).
Any landscape type can be specified in supporting arguments within the answer, sea nearby, desert, mountains, geisers, volcanoes, icefields - anything that could feasably contribute to the desired sudden lift.
A hang glider, the pilot taken by surprise, there is a sudden unexpected lift to 25,000 feet altitude, what could do this?
science-based geology weather volcanoes
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This is the third in a series of 5 (at this point) questions. It's not relevant to this question, but for anyone who's curious this was the first, this the second.
Conditions for this question are:
Earth-normal atmospheric pressure/content. (Or close)
I'm aware that over 38,000 feet has been achieved by exploiting thermals. This slow and steady way is not what I need.
I need the ascent to be sudden and unexpected (for an arguably inexperienced pilot), be it; meteorological, geothermal or by some other (not fantasy) means.
It should not kill the pilot - if you can plausably argue a volcanic erruption - then fine but the pilot must survive (unconsciousness is just fine though).
Any landscape type can be specified in supporting arguments within the answer, sea nearby, desert, mountains, geisers, volcanoes, icefields - anything that could feasably contribute to the desired sudden lift.
A hang glider, the pilot taken by surprise, there is a sudden unexpected lift to 25,000 feet altitude, what could do this?
science-based geology weather volcanoes
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I'd swear I read an article several years ago about someone over Australia having something like this happen.
$endgroup$
– Michael Richardson
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Nevermind. Chasly's answer mentions this right away.
$endgroup$
– Michael Richardson
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
Gliding altitude records are not set using thermals, but by "wave riding" the airflow over mountain ranges. Just like an airfoil, the profile of a line of hills affects the air flow up to 10 times the height of the hills themselves. In the right weather conditions these flows can remain stable for several days, and nights (unlike thermals which only exist during the day). Even in the UK with hills of only a few thousand feet, altitudes of 20,000ft are not difficult to achieve - except for the problem of keeping out of commercial controlled airspace.
$endgroup$
– alephzero
3 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This is the third in a series of 5 (at this point) questions. It's not relevant to this question, but for anyone who's curious this was the first, this the second.
Conditions for this question are:
Earth-normal atmospheric pressure/content. (Or close)
I'm aware that over 38,000 feet has been achieved by exploiting thermals. This slow and steady way is not what I need.
I need the ascent to be sudden and unexpected (for an arguably inexperienced pilot), be it; meteorological, geothermal or by some other (not fantasy) means.
It should not kill the pilot - if you can plausably argue a volcanic erruption - then fine but the pilot must survive (unconsciousness is just fine though).
Any landscape type can be specified in supporting arguments within the answer, sea nearby, desert, mountains, geisers, volcanoes, icefields - anything that could feasably contribute to the desired sudden lift.
A hang glider, the pilot taken by surprise, there is a sudden unexpected lift to 25,000 feet altitude, what could do this?
science-based geology weather volcanoes
$endgroup$
This is the third in a series of 5 (at this point) questions. It's not relevant to this question, but for anyone who's curious this was the first, this the second.
Conditions for this question are:
Earth-normal atmospheric pressure/content. (Or close)
I'm aware that over 38,000 feet has been achieved by exploiting thermals. This slow and steady way is not what I need.
I need the ascent to be sudden and unexpected (for an arguably inexperienced pilot), be it; meteorological, geothermal or by some other (not fantasy) means.
It should not kill the pilot - if you can plausably argue a volcanic erruption - then fine but the pilot must survive (unconsciousness is just fine though).
Any landscape type can be specified in supporting arguments within the answer, sea nearby, desert, mountains, geisers, volcanoes, icefields - anything that could feasably contribute to the desired sudden lift.
A hang glider, the pilot taken by surprise, there is a sudden unexpected lift to 25,000 feet altitude, what could do this?
science-based geology weather volcanoes
science-based geology weather volcanoes
asked 6 hours ago
AgrajagAgrajag
6,32911143
6,32911143
$begingroup$
I'd swear I read an article several years ago about someone over Australia having something like this happen.
$endgroup$
– Michael Richardson
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Nevermind. Chasly's answer mentions this right away.
$endgroup$
– Michael Richardson
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
Gliding altitude records are not set using thermals, but by "wave riding" the airflow over mountain ranges. Just like an airfoil, the profile of a line of hills affects the air flow up to 10 times the height of the hills themselves. In the right weather conditions these flows can remain stable for several days, and nights (unlike thermals which only exist during the day). Even in the UK with hills of only a few thousand feet, altitudes of 20,000ft are not difficult to achieve - except for the problem of keeping out of commercial controlled airspace.
$endgroup$
– alephzero
3 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I'd swear I read an article several years ago about someone over Australia having something like this happen.
$endgroup$
– Michael Richardson
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Nevermind. Chasly's answer mentions this right away.
$endgroup$
– Michael Richardson
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
Gliding altitude records are not set using thermals, but by "wave riding" the airflow over mountain ranges. Just like an airfoil, the profile of a line of hills affects the air flow up to 10 times the height of the hills themselves. In the right weather conditions these flows can remain stable for several days, and nights (unlike thermals which only exist during the day). Even in the UK with hills of only a few thousand feet, altitudes of 20,000ft are not difficult to achieve - except for the problem of keeping out of commercial controlled airspace.
$endgroup$
– alephzero
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
I'd swear I read an article several years ago about someone over Australia having something like this happen.
$endgroup$
– Michael Richardson
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
I'd swear I read an article several years ago about someone over Australia having something like this happen.
$endgroup$
– Michael Richardson
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Nevermind. Chasly's answer mentions this right away.
$endgroup$
– Michael Richardson
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
Nevermind. Chasly's answer mentions this right away.
$endgroup$
– Michael Richardson
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
Gliding altitude records are not set using thermals, but by "wave riding" the airflow over mountain ranges. Just like an airfoil, the profile of a line of hills affects the air flow up to 10 times the height of the hills themselves. In the right weather conditions these flows can remain stable for several days, and nights (unlike thermals which only exist during the day). Even in the UK with hills of only a few thousand feet, altitudes of 20,000ft are not difficult to achieve - except for the problem of keeping out of commercial controlled airspace.
$endgroup$
– alephzero
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Gliding altitude records are not set using thermals, but by "wave riding" the airflow over mountain ranges. Just like an airfoil, the profile of a line of hills affects the air flow up to 10 times the height of the hills themselves. In the right weather conditions these flows can remain stable for several days, and nights (unlike thermals which only exist during the day). Even in the UK with hills of only a few thousand feet, altitudes of 20,000ft are not difficult to achieve - except for the problem of keeping out of commercial controlled airspace.
$endgroup$
– alephzero
3 hours ago
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Getting caught in a thunderstorm is the most likely cause. This can happen even to experts if they are incautious enough to take risks with the weather.
Here's an example with a paraglider. (I'll see what I can find for a hang-glider)
Ewa Wisnierska was sucked into a powerful thunderstorm while training
for the world paragliding championships in Australia. She was carried,
unconscious and wearing a layer of ice, to an altitude of more than
32,000 feet into the eye of the storm. https://youtu.be/IXLdsnB5VBw
Here's another - this is a good one because it is videoed with a live commentary from the pilot who escaped the updraft before it was too late.
Caught in Cloud Suck! - Life lesson from 3Km above sea level
https://youtu.be/FdoGtqCQ2ZY
Some science
Hang-gliders are likely to find it easier to escape a storm because their forward speed can be much greater that that of a paraglider. They should be able fly out of it provided they can keep a sense of direction.
Hang-glider Beginner wing 14 mph to 45 mph. Advanced wing - 16 mph, to over 100 mph which has been clocked in speed gliding competitions
http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/A_Comparison_of_Hang_Gliding_to_Paragliding
Paraglider Beginner wing 13mph to 22mph. Advanced wing - 14 mph to 35mph
http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/A_Comparison_of_Hang_Gliding_to_Paragliding
EDIT (from the same source)
See under Wind penetration where my above suggestion is supported.
http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/A_Comparison_of_Hang_Gliding_to_Paragliding
Here is a claim that it can happen to hang-gliders as well but there is no reference to back it up.
In one reported incident, two hang gliders were caught in cloud suck
by the same storm clouds. Both gliders lost consciousness above 30,000
feet, one, happily, was released by the storm, and regained lucidity
before crashing into the ground. The other glider was not so
fortunate. His frozen body was discovered later and returned to his
family.
https://www.toysperiod.com/blog/extreme-sports/hang-gliders-in-the-sky/
Cloud suck
If you want to know how people get trapped and about emergency procedures for escape, then I suggest you Google "cloud suck".
Cloud suck is a phenomenon commonly known in paragliding, hang
gliding, and sailplane flying where pilots experience significant lift
due to a thermal under the base of cumulus clouds, especially towering
cumulus and cumulonimbus. The vertical extent of a cumulus cloud is a
good indicator of the strength of lift beneath it, and the potential
for cloud suck. Cloud suck most commonly occurs in low pressure
weather and in humid conditions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_suck
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Ok, I'd no idea it was that easy for even the experienced pilot, I need to improve my research methodology. Good answer. +1
$endgroup$
– Agrajag
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Agrajag - I've done a bit of paragliding and hang-gliding!
$endgroup$
– chasly from UK
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Agrajag - Does it have to be a hang-glider or could it be a paraglider? I've yet to find any evidence of the former being trapped in a storm cloud. Probably due to the difference in forward speed (see edit to my answer).
$endgroup$
– chasly from UK
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
I wasn't going to be specific 'till I'd decided. I'm just going with hang glider beginner, but keeping an open mind regarding the actual tech. I'll take it all in and use the ideas, or something different that springs from them.
$endgroup$
– Agrajag
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
This is definitive answer to the question. +1.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
5 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
Let me add one more...
Wind Shear
Wind shear (or windshear), sometimes referred to as wind gradient, is a difference in wind speed or direction over a relatively short distance in the atmosphere. Atmospheric wind shear is normally described as either vertical or horizontal wind shear. Vertical wind shear is a change in wind speed or direction with change in altitude. Horizontal wind shear is a change in wind speed with change in lateral position for a given altitude.[1]
Wind shear is a microscale meteorological phenomenon occurring over a very small distance, but it can be associated with mesoscale or synoptic scale weather features such as squall lines and cold fronts. It is commonly observed near microbursts and downbursts caused by thunderstorms, fronts, areas of locally higher low-level winds referred to as low level jets, near mountains, radiation inversions that occur due to clear skies and calm winds, buildings, wind turbines, and sailboats. Wind shear has significant effects on control of an aircraft, and it has been a sole or contributing cause of many aircraft accidents. (Source)
Basically, (and specifically considering vertical wind shear) wind shear is a very sudden column of high-speed air. It has the habit of flipping big airplanes on their sides. And when they say "short distance," they mean it. It can affect a single wing. They're fairly common at Denver International Airport, which was developing radar specifically for detecting wind shear when I was graduating as an EE. I almost elected to intern at DIA and use the development process for my senior thesis.
If it's strong enough to flip a 767 ninety degrees, it's strong enough to lift a hang glider.
It might actually be too strong. These gusts might tear a hang glider apart. But, what's a story without a crisis, right?
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
The wind shear you're describing produces downwards and horizontal winds. Totally useless for lifting something to 30,000 feet.
$endgroup$
– Mark
47 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A hang glider caught under a powerful cumulo-nimbus is unlikely to be able to 'outfly' the updraft without breaking the airframe.
I have flown a high performance sailplane capable of around 180 knots, flying fast with the airbrakes out, wheel down and with crossed controls and STILL showing a healthy 5 metres per second climb. With all that one would expect to be sinking at probably 15 m/s. or more. 'Assuming the glide angle of a brick' as we say. A hang glider would simply be sucked in to the cloud and spat out at random. I flew ( sailplanes ) with a chap who, in the early days of gliding got inadvertently sucked in to a South African CuNim and emerged from the anvil at well over 30 000' ( the instruments all froze well below that ) the airframe was caked in ice and he had no supplemental oxygen. Very fortunate to survive. I have seen rates of over 20 m/s in a sailplane under big CuNims ( that's around 80 kilometers per hour straight UP! ) and rates WELL in excess of that have been recorded inside big developed storms. A H/G would go from entry at say 5000' to exit at 25000' in around 5 ( very terrifying ) minutes. The pilot would be lashed with hail, probably suffering from the cold and damp and possibly annoxia.
I very much doubt that a H/G could enter wave without being able to avoid it. In conditions where they were lifted to 25 000' in a very short space of time no one in their right mind would be out with a hang glider at all. ( I have piloted a sailplane to over 32000 in wave ) The windspeeds required would be well beyond the capabilities of the H/G to get airborne, penetrate any turbulence or penetrate enough to stay in the lift. Its implausible.
Inadvertent entry into cloud is the most likely scenario. ( although a lot of people who do this are no longer here to tell the tale as without instrumentation and experience, it is highly likely that the airframe breaks )
This was on a forecast relatively benign thermal day. cloud entry
New contributor
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Getting caught in a thunderstorm is the most likely cause. This can happen even to experts if they are incautious enough to take risks with the weather.
Here's an example with a paraglider. (I'll see what I can find for a hang-glider)
Ewa Wisnierska was sucked into a powerful thunderstorm while training
for the world paragliding championships in Australia. She was carried,
unconscious and wearing a layer of ice, to an altitude of more than
32,000 feet into the eye of the storm. https://youtu.be/IXLdsnB5VBw
Here's another - this is a good one because it is videoed with a live commentary from the pilot who escaped the updraft before it was too late.
Caught in Cloud Suck! - Life lesson from 3Km above sea level
https://youtu.be/FdoGtqCQ2ZY
Some science
Hang-gliders are likely to find it easier to escape a storm because their forward speed can be much greater that that of a paraglider. They should be able fly out of it provided they can keep a sense of direction.
Hang-glider Beginner wing 14 mph to 45 mph. Advanced wing - 16 mph, to over 100 mph which has been clocked in speed gliding competitions
http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/A_Comparison_of_Hang_Gliding_to_Paragliding
Paraglider Beginner wing 13mph to 22mph. Advanced wing - 14 mph to 35mph
http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/A_Comparison_of_Hang_Gliding_to_Paragliding
EDIT (from the same source)
See under Wind penetration where my above suggestion is supported.
http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/A_Comparison_of_Hang_Gliding_to_Paragliding
Here is a claim that it can happen to hang-gliders as well but there is no reference to back it up.
In one reported incident, two hang gliders were caught in cloud suck
by the same storm clouds. Both gliders lost consciousness above 30,000
feet, one, happily, was released by the storm, and regained lucidity
before crashing into the ground. The other glider was not so
fortunate. His frozen body was discovered later and returned to his
family.
https://www.toysperiod.com/blog/extreme-sports/hang-gliders-in-the-sky/
Cloud suck
If you want to know how people get trapped and about emergency procedures for escape, then I suggest you Google "cloud suck".
Cloud suck is a phenomenon commonly known in paragliding, hang
gliding, and sailplane flying where pilots experience significant lift
due to a thermal under the base of cumulus clouds, especially towering
cumulus and cumulonimbus. The vertical extent of a cumulus cloud is a
good indicator of the strength of lift beneath it, and the potential
for cloud suck. Cloud suck most commonly occurs in low pressure
weather and in humid conditions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_suck
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Ok, I'd no idea it was that easy for even the experienced pilot, I need to improve my research methodology. Good answer. +1
$endgroup$
– Agrajag
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Agrajag - I've done a bit of paragliding and hang-gliding!
$endgroup$
– chasly from UK
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Agrajag - Does it have to be a hang-glider or could it be a paraglider? I've yet to find any evidence of the former being trapped in a storm cloud. Probably due to the difference in forward speed (see edit to my answer).
$endgroup$
– chasly from UK
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
I wasn't going to be specific 'till I'd decided. I'm just going with hang glider beginner, but keeping an open mind regarding the actual tech. I'll take it all in and use the ideas, or something different that springs from them.
$endgroup$
– Agrajag
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
This is definitive answer to the question. +1.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
5 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
Getting caught in a thunderstorm is the most likely cause. This can happen even to experts if they are incautious enough to take risks with the weather.
Here's an example with a paraglider. (I'll see what I can find for a hang-glider)
Ewa Wisnierska was sucked into a powerful thunderstorm while training
for the world paragliding championships in Australia. She was carried,
unconscious and wearing a layer of ice, to an altitude of more than
32,000 feet into the eye of the storm. https://youtu.be/IXLdsnB5VBw
Here's another - this is a good one because it is videoed with a live commentary from the pilot who escaped the updraft before it was too late.
Caught in Cloud Suck! - Life lesson from 3Km above sea level
https://youtu.be/FdoGtqCQ2ZY
Some science
Hang-gliders are likely to find it easier to escape a storm because their forward speed can be much greater that that of a paraglider. They should be able fly out of it provided they can keep a sense of direction.
Hang-glider Beginner wing 14 mph to 45 mph. Advanced wing - 16 mph, to over 100 mph which has been clocked in speed gliding competitions
http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/A_Comparison_of_Hang_Gliding_to_Paragliding
Paraglider Beginner wing 13mph to 22mph. Advanced wing - 14 mph to 35mph
http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/A_Comparison_of_Hang_Gliding_to_Paragliding
EDIT (from the same source)
See under Wind penetration where my above suggestion is supported.
http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/A_Comparison_of_Hang_Gliding_to_Paragliding
Here is a claim that it can happen to hang-gliders as well but there is no reference to back it up.
In one reported incident, two hang gliders were caught in cloud suck
by the same storm clouds. Both gliders lost consciousness above 30,000
feet, one, happily, was released by the storm, and regained lucidity
before crashing into the ground. The other glider was not so
fortunate. His frozen body was discovered later and returned to his
family.
https://www.toysperiod.com/blog/extreme-sports/hang-gliders-in-the-sky/
Cloud suck
If you want to know how people get trapped and about emergency procedures for escape, then I suggest you Google "cloud suck".
Cloud suck is a phenomenon commonly known in paragliding, hang
gliding, and sailplane flying where pilots experience significant lift
due to a thermal under the base of cumulus clouds, especially towering
cumulus and cumulonimbus. The vertical extent of a cumulus cloud is a
good indicator of the strength of lift beneath it, and the potential
for cloud suck. Cloud suck most commonly occurs in low pressure
weather and in humid conditions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_suck
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Ok, I'd no idea it was that easy for even the experienced pilot, I need to improve my research methodology. Good answer. +1
$endgroup$
– Agrajag
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Agrajag - I've done a bit of paragliding and hang-gliding!
$endgroup$
– chasly from UK
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Agrajag - Does it have to be a hang-glider or could it be a paraglider? I've yet to find any evidence of the former being trapped in a storm cloud. Probably due to the difference in forward speed (see edit to my answer).
$endgroup$
– chasly from UK
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
I wasn't going to be specific 'till I'd decided. I'm just going with hang glider beginner, but keeping an open mind regarding the actual tech. I'll take it all in and use the ideas, or something different that springs from them.
$endgroup$
– Agrajag
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
This is definitive answer to the question. +1.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
5 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
Getting caught in a thunderstorm is the most likely cause. This can happen even to experts if they are incautious enough to take risks with the weather.
Here's an example with a paraglider. (I'll see what I can find for a hang-glider)
Ewa Wisnierska was sucked into a powerful thunderstorm while training
for the world paragliding championships in Australia. She was carried,
unconscious and wearing a layer of ice, to an altitude of more than
32,000 feet into the eye of the storm. https://youtu.be/IXLdsnB5VBw
Here's another - this is a good one because it is videoed with a live commentary from the pilot who escaped the updraft before it was too late.
Caught in Cloud Suck! - Life lesson from 3Km above sea level
https://youtu.be/FdoGtqCQ2ZY
Some science
Hang-gliders are likely to find it easier to escape a storm because their forward speed can be much greater that that of a paraglider. They should be able fly out of it provided they can keep a sense of direction.
Hang-glider Beginner wing 14 mph to 45 mph. Advanced wing - 16 mph, to over 100 mph which has been clocked in speed gliding competitions
http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/A_Comparison_of_Hang_Gliding_to_Paragliding
Paraglider Beginner wing 13mph to 22mph. Advanced wing - 14 mph to 35mph
http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/A_Comparison_of_Hang_Gliding_to_Paragliding
EDIT (from the same source)
See under Wind penetration where my above suggestion is supported.
http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/A_Comparison_of_Hang_Gliding_to_Paragliding
Here is a claim that it can happen to hang-gliders as well but there is no reference to back it up.
In one reported incident, two hang gliders were caught in cloud suck
by the same storm clouds. Both gliders lost consciousness above 30,000
feet, one, happily, was released by the storm, and regained lucidity
before crashing into the ground. The other glider was not so
fortunate. His frozen body was discovered later and returned to his
family.
https://www.toysperiod.com/blog/extreme-sports/hang-gliders-in-the-sky/
Cloud suck
If you want to know how people get trapped and about emergency procedures for escape, then I suggest you Google "cloud suck".
Cloud suck is a phenomenon commonly known in paragliding, hang
gliding, and sailplane flying where pilots experience significant lift
due to a thermal under the base of cumulus clouds, especially towering
cumulus and cumulonimbus. The vertical extent of a cumulus cloud is a
good indicator of the strength of lift beneath it, and the potential
for cloud suck. Cloud suck most commonly occurs in low pressure
weather and in humid conditions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_suck
$endgroup$
Getting caught in a thunderstorm is the most likely cause. This can happen even to experts if they are incautious enough to take risks with the weather.
Here's an example with a paraglider. (I'll see what I can find for a hang-glider)
Ewa Wisnierska was sucked into a powerful thunderstorm while training
for the world paragliding championships in Australia. She was carried,
unconscious and wearing a layer of ice, to an altitude of more than
32,000 feet into the eye of the storm. https://youtu.be/IXLdsnB5VBw
Here's another - this is a good one because it is videoed with a live commentary from the pilot who escaped the updraft before it was too late.
Caught in Cloud Suck! - Life lesson from 3Km above sea level
https://youtu.be/FdoGtqCQ2ZY
Some science
Hang-gliders are likely to find it easier to escape a storm because their forward speed can be much greater that that of a paraglider. They should be able fly out of it provided they can keep a sense of direction.
Hang-glider Beginner wing 14 mph to 45 mph. Advanced wing - 16 mph, to over 100 mph which has been clocked in speed gliding competitions
http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/A_Comparison_of_Hang_Gliding_to_Paragliding
Paraglider Beginner wing 13mph to 22mph. Advanced wing - 14 mph to 35mph
http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/A_Comparison_of_Hang_Gliding_to_Paragliding
EDIT (from the same source)
See under Wind penetration where my above suggestion is supported.
http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/A_Comparison_of_Hang_Gliding_to_Paragliding
Here is a claim that it can happen to hang-gliders as well but there is no reference to back it up.
In one reported incident, two hang gliders were caught in cloud suck
by the same storm clouds. Both gliders lost consciousness above 30,000
feet, one, happily, was released by the storm, and regained lucidity
before crashing into the ground. The other glider was not so
fortunate. His frozen body was discovered later and returned to his
family.
https://www.toysperiod.com/blog/extreme-sports/hang-gliders-in-the-sky/
Cloud suck
If you want to know how people get trapped and about emergency procedures for escape, then I suggest you Google "cloud suck".
Cloud suck is a phenomenon commonly known in paragliding, hang
gliding, and sailplane flying where pilots experience significant lift
due to a thermal under the base of cumulus clouds, especially towering
cumulus and cumulonimbus. The vertical extent of a cumulus cloud is a
good indicator of the strength of lift beneath it, and the potential
for cloud suck. Cloud suck most commonly occurs in low pressure
weather and in humid conditions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_suck
edited 5 hours ago
answered 6 hours ago
chasly from UKchasly from UK
19.5k882173
19.5k882173
$begingroup$
Ok, I'd no idea it was that easy for even the experienced pilot, I need to improve my research methodology. Good answer. +1
$endgroup$
– Agrajag
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Agrajag - I've done a bit of paragliding and hang-gliding!
$endgroup$
– chasly from UK
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Agrajag - Does it have to be a hang-glider or could it be a paraglider? I've yet to find any evidence of the former being trapped in a storm cloud. Probably due to the difference in forward speed (see edit to my answer).
$endgroup$
– chasly from UK
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
I wasn't going to be specific 'till I'd decided. I'm just going with hang glider beginner, but keeping an open mind regarding the actual tech. I'll take it all in and use the ideas, or something different that springs from them.
$endgroup$
– Agrajag
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
This is definitive answer to the question. +1.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
5 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
Ok, I'd no idea it was that easy for even the experienced pilot, I need to improve my research methodology. Good answer. +1
$endgroup$
– Agrajag
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Agrajag - I've done a bit of paragliding and hang-gliding!
$endgroup$
– chasly from UK
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Agrajag - Does it have to be a hang-glider or could it be a paraglider? I've yet to find any evidence of the former being trapped in a storm cloud. Probably due to the difference in forward speed (see edit to my answer).
$endgroup$
– chasly from UK
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
I wasn't going to be specific 'till I'd decided. I'm just going with hang glider beginner, but keeping an open mind regarding the actual tech. I'll take it all in and use the ideas, or something different that springs from them.
$endgroup$
– Agrajag
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
This is definitive answer to the question. +1.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Ok, I'd no idea it was that easy for even the experienced pilot, I need to improve my research methodology. Good answer. +1
$endgroup$
– Agrajag
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
Ok, I'd no idea it was that easy for even the experienced pilot, I need to improve my research methodology. Good answer. +1
$endgroup$
– Agrajag
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Agrajag - I've done a bit of paragliding and hang-gliding!
$endgroup$
– chasly from UK
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Agrajag - I've done a bit of paragliding and hang-gliding!
$endgroup$
– chasly from UK
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Agrajag - Does it have to be a hang-glider or could it be a paraglider? I've yet to find any evidence of the former being trapped in a storm cloud. Probably due to the difference in forward speed (see edit to my answer).
$endgroup$
– chasly from UK
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Agrajag - Does it have to be a hang-glider or could it be a paraglider? I've yet to find any evidence of the former being trapped in a storm cloud. Probably due to the difference in forward speed (see edit to my answer).
$endgroup$
– chasly from UK
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
I wasn't going to be specific 'till I'd decided. I'm just going with hang glider beginner, but keeping an open mind regarding the actual tech. I'll take it all in and use the ideas, or something different that springs from them.
$endgroup$
– Agrajag
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
I wasn't going to be specific 'till I'd decided. I'm just going with hang glider beginner, but keeping an open mind regarding the actual tech. I'll take it all in and use the ideas, or something different that springs from them.
$endgroup$
– Agrajag
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
This is definitive answer to the question. +1.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
This is definitive answer to the question. +1.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
5 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
Let me add one more...
Wind Shear
Wind shear (or windshear), sometimes referred to as wind gradient, is a difference in wind speed or direction over a relatively short distance in the atmosphere. Atmospheric wind shear is normally described as either vertical or horizontal wind shear. Vertical wind shear is a change in wind speed or direction with change in altitude. Horizontal wind shear is a change in wind speed with change in lateral position for a given altitude.[1]
Wind shear is a microscale meteorological phenomenon occurring over a very small distance, but it can be associated with mesoscale or synoptic scale weather features such as squall lines and cold fronts. It is commonly observed near microbursts and downbursts caused by thunderstorms, fronts, areas of locally higher low-level winds referred to as low level jets, near mountains, radiation inversions that occur due to clear skies and calm winds, buildings, wind turbines, and sailboats. Wind shear has significant effects on control of an aircraft, and it has been a sole or contributing cause of many aircraft accidents. (Source)
Basically, (and specifically considering vertical wind shear) wind shear is a very sudden column of high-speed air. It has the habit of flipping big airplanes on their sides. And when they say "short distance," they mean it. It can affect a single wing. They're fairly common at Denver International Airport, which was developing radar specifically for detecting wind shear when I was graduating as an EE. I almost elected to intern at DIA and use the development process for my senior thesis.
If it's strong enough to flip a 767 ninety degrees, it's strong enough to lift a hang glider.
It might actually be too strong. These gusts might tear a hang glider apart. But, what's a story without a crisis, right?
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
The wind shear you're describing produces downwards and horizontal winds. Totally useless for lifting something to 30,000 feet.
$endgroup$
– Mark
47 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let me add one more...
Wind Shear
Wind shear (or windshear), sometimes referred to as wind gradient, is a difference in wind speed or direction over a relatively short distance in the atmosphere. Atmospheric wind shear is normally described as either vertical or horizontal wind shear. Vertical wind shear is a change in wind speed or direction with change in altitude. Horizontal wind shear is a change in wind speed with change in lateral position for a given altitude.[1]
Wind shear is a microscale meteorological phenomenon occurring over a very small distance, but it can be associated with mesoscale or synoptic scale weather features such as squall lines and cold fronts. It is commonly observed near microbursts and downbursts caused by thunderstorms, fronts, areas of locally higher low-level winds referred to as low level jets, near mountains, radiation inversions that occur due to clear skies and calm winds, buildings, wind turbines, and sailboats. Wind shear has significant effects on control of an aircraft, and it has been a sole or contributing cause of many aircraft accidents. (Source)
Basically, (and specifically considering vertical wind shear) wind shear is a very sudden column of high-speed air. It has the habit of flipping big airplanes on their sides. And when they say "short distance," they mean it. It can affect a single wing. They're fairly common at Denver International Airport, which was developing radar specifically for detecting wind shear when I was graduating as an EE. I almost elected to intern at DIA and use the development process for my senior thesis.
If it's strong enough to flip a 767 ninety degrees, it's strong enough to lift a hang glider.
It might actually be too strong. These gusts might tear a hang glider apart. But, what's a story without a crisis, right?
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
The wind shear you're describing produces downwards and horizontal winds. Totally useless for lifting something to 30,000 feet.
$endgroup$
– Mark
47 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let me add one more...
Wind Shear
Wind shear (or windshear), sometimes referred to as wind gradient, is a difference in wind speed or direction over a relatively short distance in the atmosphere. Atmospheric wind shear is normally described as either vertical or horizontal wind shear. Vertical wind shear is a change in wind speed or direction with change in altitude. Horizontal wind shear is a change in wind speed with change in lateral position for a given altitude.[1]
Wind shear is a microscale meteorological phenomenon occurring over a very small distance, but it can be associated with mesoscale or synoptic scale weather features such as squall lines and cold fronts. It is commonly observed near microbursts and downbursts caused by thunderstorms, fronts, areas of locally higher low-level winds referred to as low level jets, near mountains, radiation inversions that occur due to clear skies and calm winds, buildings, wind turbines, and sailboats. Wind shear has significant effects on control of an aircraft, and it has been a sole or contributing cause of many aircraft accidents. (Source)
Basically, (and specifically considering vertical wind shear) wind shear is a very sudden column of high-speed air. It has the habit of flipping big airplanes on their sides. And when they say "short distance," they mean it. It can affect a single wing. They're fairly common at Denver International Airport, which was developing radar specifically for detecting wind shear when I was graduating as an EE. I almost elected to intern at DIA and use the development process for my senior thesis.
If it's strong enough to flip a 767 ninety degrees, it's strong enough to lift a hang glider.
It might actually be too strong. These gusts might tear a hang glider apart. But, what's a story without a crisis, right?
$endgroup$
Let me add one more...
Wind Shear
Wind shear (or windshear), sometimes referred to as wind gradient, is a difference in wind speed or direction over a relatively short distance in the atmosphere. Atmospheric wind shear is normally described as either vertical or horizontal wind shear. Vertical wind shear is a change in wind speed or direction with change in altitude. Horizontal wind shear is a change in wind speed with change in lateral position for a given altitude.[1]
Wind shear is a microscale meteorological phenomenon occurring over a very small distance, but it can be associated with mesoscale or synoptic scale weather features such as squall lines and cold fronts. It is commonly observed near microbursts and downbursts caused by thunderstorms, fronts, areas of locally higher low-level winds referred to as low level jets, near mountains, radiation inversions that occur due to clear skies and calm winds, buildings, wind turbines, and sailboats. Wind shear has significant effects on control of an aircraft, and it has been a sole or contributing cause of many aircraft accidents. (Source)
Basically, (and specifically considering vertical wind shear) wind shear is a very sudden column of high-speed air. It has the habit of flipping big airplanes on their sides. And when they say "short distance," they mean it. It can affect a single wing. They're fairly common at Denver International Airport, which was developing radar specifically for detecting wind shear when I was graduating as an EE. I almost elected to intern at DIA and use the development process for my senior thesis.
If it's strong enough to flip a 767 ninety degrees, it's strong enough to lift a hang glider.
It might actually be too strong. These gusts might tear a hang glider apart. But, what's a story without a crisis, right?
answered 3 hours ago
JBHJBH
47.5k699222
47.5k699222
$begingroup$
The wind shear you're describing produces downwards and horizontal winds. Totally useless for lifting something to 30,000 feet.
$endgroup$
– Mark
47 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The wind shear you're describing produces downwards and horizontal winds. Totally useless for lifting something to 30,000 feet.
$endgroup$
– Mark
47 mins ago
$begingroup$
The wind shear you're describing produces downwards and horizontal winds. Totally useless for lifting something to 30,000 feet.
$endgroup$
– Mark
47 mins ago
$begingroup$
The wind shear you're describing produces downwards and horizontal winds. Totally useless for lifting something to 30,000 feet.
$endgroup$
– Mark
47 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A hang glider caught under a powerful cumulo-nimbus is unlikely to be able to 'outfly' the updraft without breaking the airframe.
I have flown a high performance sailplane capable of around 180 knots, flying fast with the airbrakes out, wheel down and with crossed controls and STILL showing a healthy 5 metres per second climb. With all that one would expect to be sinking at probably 15 m/s. or more. 'Assuming the glide angle of a brick' as we say. A hang glider would simply be sucked in to the cloud and spat out at random. I flew ( sailplanes ) with a chap who, in the early days of gliding got inadvertently sucked in to a South African CuNim and emerged from the anvil at well over 30 000' ( the instruments all froze well below that ) the airframe was caked in ice and he had no supplemental oxygen. Very fortunate to survive. I have seen rates of over 20 m/s in a sailplane under big CuNims ( that's around 80 kilometers per hour straight UP! ) and rates WELL in excess of that have been recorded inside big developed storms. A H/G would go from entry at say 5000' to exit at 25000' in around 5 ( very terrifying ) minutes. The pilot would be lashed with hail, probably suffering from the cold and damp and possibly annoxia.
I very much doubt that a H/G could enter wave without being able to avoid it. In conditions where they were lifted to 25 000' in a very short space of time no one in their right mind would be out with a hang glider at all. ( I have piloted a sailplane to over 32000 in wave ) The windspeeds required would be well beyond the capabilities of the H/G to get airborne, penetrate any turbulence or penetrate enough to stay in the lift. Its implausible.
Inadvertent entry into cloud is the most likely scenario. ( although a lot of people who do this are no longer here to tell the tale as without instrumentation and experience, it is highly likely that the airframe breaks )
This was on a forecast relatively benign thermal day. cloud entry
New contributor
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A hang glider caught under a powerful cumulo-nimbus is unlikely to be able to 'outfly' the updraft without breaking the airframe.
I have flown a high performance sailplane capable of around 180 knots, flying fast with the airbrakes out, wheel down and with crossed controls and STILL showing a healthy 5 metres per second climb. With all that one would expect to be sinking at probably 15 m/s. or more. 'Assuming the glide angle of a brick' as we say. A hang glider would simply be sucked in to the cloud and spat out at random. I flew ( sailplanes ) with a chap who, in the early days of gliding got inadvertently sucked in to a South African CuNim and emerged from the anvil at well over 30 000' ( the instruments all froze well below that ) the airframe was caked in ice and he had no supplemental oxygen. Very fortunate to survive. I have seen rates of over 20 m/s in a sailplane under big CuNims ( that's around 80 kilometers per hour straight UP! ) and rates WELL in excess of that have been recorded inside big developed storms. A H/G would go from entry at say 5000' to exit at 25000' in around 5 ( very terrifying ) minutes. The pilot would be lashed with hail, probably suffering from the cold and damp and possibly annoxia.
I very much doubt that a H/G could enter wave without being able to avoid it. In conditions where they were lifted to 25 000' in a very short space of time no one in their right mind would be out with a hang glider at all. ( I have piloted a sailplane to over 32000 in wave ) The windspeeds required would be well beyond the capabilities of the H/G to get airborne, penetrate any turbulence or penetrate enough to stay in the lift. Its implausible.
Inadvertent entry into cloud is the most likely scenario. ( although a lot of people who do this are no longer here to tell the tale as without instrumentation and experience, it is highly likely that the airframe breaks )
This was on a forecast relatively benign thermal day. cloud entry
New contributor
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A hang glider caught under a powerful cumulo-nimbus is unlikely to be able to 'outfly' the updraft without breaking the airframe.
I have flown a high performance sailplane capable of around 180 knots, flying fast with the airbrakes out, wheel down and with crossed controls and STILL showing a healthy 5 metres per second climb. With all that one would expect to be sinking at probably 15 m/s. or more. 'Assuming the glide angle of a brick' as we say. A hang glider would simply be sucked in to the cloud and spat out at random. I flew ( sailplanes ) with a chap who, in the early days of gliding got inadvertently sucked in to a South African CuNim and emerged from the anvil at well over 30 000' ( the instruments all froze well below that ) the airframe was caked in ice and he had no supplemental oxygen. Very fortunate to survive. I have seen rates of over 20 m/s in a sailplane under big CuNims ( that's around 80 kilometers per hour straight UP! ) and rates WELL in excess of that have been recorded inside big developed storms. A H/G would go from entry at say 5000' to exit at 25000' in around 5 ( very terrifying ) minutes. The pilot would be lashed with hail, probably suffering from the cold and damp and possibly annoxia.
I very much doubt that a H/G could enter wave without being able to avoid it. In conditions where they were lifted to 25 000' in a very short space of time no one in their right mind would be out with a hang glider at all. ( I have piloted a sailplane to over 32000 in wave ) The windspeeds required would be well beyond the capabilities of the H/G to get airborne, penetrate any turbulence or penetrate enough to stay in the lift. Its implausible.
Inadvertent entry into cloud is the most likely scenario. ( although a lot of people who do this are no longer here to tell the tale as without instrumentation and experience, it is highly likely that the airframe breaks )
This was on a forecast relatively benign thermal day. cloud entry
New contributor
$endgroup$
A hang glider caught under a powerful cumulo-nimbus is unlikely to be able to 'outfly' the updraft without breaking the airframe.
I have flown a high performance sailplane capable of around 180 knots, flying fast with the airbrakes out, wheel down and with crossed controls and STILL showing a healthy 5 metres per second climb. With all that one would expect to be sinking at probably 15 m/s. or more. 'Assuming the glide angle of a brick' as we say. A hang glider would simply be sucked in to the cloud and spat out at random. I flew ( sailplanes ) with a chap who, in the early days of gliding got inadvertently sucked in to a South African CuNim and emerged from the anvil at well over 30 000' ( the instruments all froze well below that ) the airframe was caked in ice and he had no supplemental oxygen. Very fortunate to survive. I have seen rates of over 20 m/s in a sailplane under big CuNims ( that's around 80 kilometers per hour straight UP! ) and rates WELL in excess of that have been recorded inside big developed storms. A H/G would go from entry at say 5000' to exit at 25000' in around 5 ( very terrifying ) minutes. The pilot would be lashed with hail, probably suffering from the cold and damp and possibly annoxia.
I very much doubt that a H/G could enter wave without being able to avoid it. In conditions where they were lifted to 25 000' in a very short space of time no one in their right mind would be out with a hang glider at all. ( I have piloted a sailplane to over 32000 in wave ) The windspeeds required would be well beyond the capabilities of the H/G to get airborne, penetrate any turbulence or penetrate enough to stay in the lift. Its implausible.
Inadvertent entry into cloud is the most likely scenario. ( although a lot of people who do this are no longer here to tell the tale as without instrumentation and experience, it is highly likely that the airframe breaks )
This was on a forecast relatively benign thermal day. cloud entry
New contributor
New contributor
answered 4 mins ago
nimbusgbnimbusgb
101
101
New contributor
New contributor
add a comment |
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
I'd swear I read an article several years ago about someone over Australia having something like this happen.
$endgroup$
– Michael Richardson
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Nevermind. Chasly's answer mentions this right away.
$endgroup$
– Michael Richardson
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
Gliding altitude records are not set using thermals, but by "wave riding" the airflow over mountain ranges. Just like an airfoil, the profile of a line of hills affects the air flow up to 10 times the height of the hills themselves. In the right weather conditions these flows can remain stable for several days, and nights (unlike thermals which only exist during the day). Even in the UK with hills of only a few thousand feet, altitudes of 20,000ft are not difficult to achieve - except for the problem of keeping out of commercial controlled airspace.
$endgroup$
– alephzero
3 hours ago