Why is 0 vs 0.0 causing a precision problem?
$begingroup$
I wasn't sure what to title this Question.
I tried calculating different forms of a continued fraction, and I found that I get a correct result when I set d to 0 but a wrong result (in the final two terms) if I set d to 0.0
ClearAll["Global`*"];
t = Sqrt[17];
d = 0.0;
n = 11;
a = ConstantArray[0, n];
Do[a[[i]] = Floor[t + d]; t = 1/(t - Floor[t + d]), {i, 1, n}];
a
{4, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 7, 4}
I only caught this because I happen to know that this series should end in infinite 8's.
When I try to calculate the form of continued fractions that allows negative terms, I get the correct series from d=1/2 but wrong terms if d=.5. So I gather that this problem has something to do with precision and using rational numbers instead of floats but why is this happening for zero? Is Mathematica adding 0.0 incorrectly?
machine-precision precision-and-accuracy
asked 6 hours ago
Jerry GuernJerry Guern
1,995933
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I wasn't sure what to title this Question.
I tried calculating different forms of a continued fraction, and I found that I get a correct result when I set d to 0 but a wrong result (in the final two terms) if I set d to 0.0
ClearAll["Global`*"];
t = Sqrt[17];
d = 0.0;
n = 11;
a = ConstantArray[0, n];
Do[a[[i]] = Floor[t + d]; t = 1/(t - Floor[t + d]), {i, 1, n}];
a
{4, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 7, 4}
I only caught this because I happen to know that this series should end in infinite 8's.
When I try to calculate the form of continued fractions that allows negative terms, I get the correct series from d=1/2 but wrong terms if d=.5. So I gather that this problem has something to do with precision and using rational numbers instead of floats but why is this happening for zero? Is Mathematica adding 0.0 incorrectly?
machine-precision precision-and-accuracy
asked 6 hours ago
Jerry GuernJerry Guern
1,995933
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
The presence of any machine precision number (including0.0) will result in the calculation being done with machine precision.
$endgroup$
– Bob Hanlon
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
By using an extended precision version of0you can get a small speedup from using numbers instead of full symbolic expressions but without sacrificing accuracy. Tryd=0``1.
$endgroup$
– b3m2a1
5 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Also in terms of programming style this is probably faster:d + NestList[1/(# - Floor[# + d]) &, t, 200] // Floor // RepeatedTiming
$endgroup$
– b3m2a1
5 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I wasn't sure what to title this Question.
I tried calculating different forms of a continued fraction, and I found that I get a correct result when I set d to 0 but a wrong result (in the final two terms) if I set d to 0.0
ClearAll["Global`*"];
t = Sqrt[17];
d = 0.0;
n = 11;
a = ConstantArray[0, n];
Do[a[[i]] = Floor[t + d]; t = 1/(t - Floor[t + d]), {i, 1, n}];
a
{4, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 7, 4}
I only caught this because I happen to know that this series should end in infinite 8's.
When I try to calculate the form of continued fractions that allows negative terms, I get the correct series from d=1/2 but wrong terms if d=.5. So I gather that this problem has something to do with precision and using rational numbers instead of floats but why is this happening for zero? Is Mathematica adding 0.0 incorrectly?
machine-precision precision-and-accuracy
asked 6 hours ago
Jerry GuernJerry Guern
1,995933
$endgroup$
I wasn't sure what to title this Question.
I tried calculating different forms of a continued fraction, and I found that I get a correct result when I set d to 0 but a wrong result (in the final two terms) if I set d to 0.0
ClearAll["Global`*"];
t = Sqrt[17];
d = 0.0;
n = 11;
a = ConstantArray[0, n];
Do[a[[i]] = Floor[t + d]; t = 1/(t - Floor[t + d]), {i, 1, n}];
a
{4, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 7, 4}
I only caught this because I happen to know that this series should end in infinite 8's.
When I try to calculate the form of continued fractions that allows negative terms, I get the correct series from d=1/2 but wrong terms if d=.5. So I gather that this problem has something to do with precision and using rational numbers instead of floats but why is this happening for zero? Is Mathematica adding 0.0 incorrectly?
machine-precision precision-and-accuracy
machine-precision precision-and-accuracy
asked 6 hours ago
Jerry GuernJerry Guern
1,995933
asked 6 hours ago
Jerry GuernJerry Guern
1,995933
asked 6 hours ago
Jerry GuernJerry Guern
1,995933
asked 6 hours ago
Jerry GuernJerry Guern
1,995933
asked 6 hours ago
Jerry GuernJerry Guern
1,995933
1,995933
1
$begingroup$
The presence of any machine precision number (including0.0) will result in the calculation being done with machine precision.
$endgroup$
– Bob Hanlon
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
By using an extended precision version of0you can get a small speedup from using numbers instead of full symbolic expressions but without sacrificing accuracy. Tryd=0``1.
$endgroup$
– b3m2a1
5 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Also in terms of programming style this is probably faster:d + NestList[1/(# - Floor[# + d]) &, t, 200] // Floor // RepeatedTiming
$endgroup$
– b3m2a1
5 hours ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
The presence of any machine precision number (including0.0) will result in the calculation being done with machine precision.
$endgroup$
– Bob Hanlon
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
By using an extended precision version of0you can get a small speedup from using numbers instead of full symbolic expressions but without sacrificing accuracy. Tryd=0``1.
$endgroup$
– b3m2a1
5 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Also in terms of programming style this is probably faster:d + NestList[1/(# - Floor[# + d]) &, t, 200] // Floor // RepeatedTiming
$endgroup$
– b3m2a1
5 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
The presence of any machine precision number (including
0.0) will result in the calculation being done with machine precision.$endgroup$
– Bob Hanlon
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
The presence of any machine precision number (including
0.0) will result in the calculation being done with machine precision.$endgroup$
– Bob Hanlon
6 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
By using an extended precision version of
0 you can get a small speedup from using numbers instead of full symbolic expressions but without sacrificing accuracy. Try d=0``1.$endgroup$
– b3m2a1
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
By using an extended precision version of
0 you can get a small speedup from using numbers instead of full symbolic expressions but without sacrificing accuracy. Try d=0``1.$endgroup$
– b3m2a1
5 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
Also in terms of programming style this is probably faster:
d + NestList[1/(# - Floor[# + d]) &, t, 200] // Floor // RepeatedTiming$endgroup$
– b3m2a1
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Also in terms of programming style this is probably faster:
d + NestList[1/(# - Floor[# + d]) &, t, 200] // Floor // RepeatedTiming$endgroup$
– b3m2a1
5 hours ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Your algorithm is probing the limits of machine precision numbers.
When you add Sqrt[17]+0 you get $sqrt{17}$ with infinite precision:
Sqrt[17] + 0
(* Sqrt[17] *)
When you add Sqrt[17]+0.0 you get much less precision:
Sqrt[17] + 0.0 // FullForm
(* 4.123105625617661` *)
The number you're effectively dealing with in the d=0.0 case is not $t=sqrt{17}$ but
SetPrecision[Sqrt[17] + 0.0, ∞]
(* 4642204239785223/1125899906842624 *)
which is the closest available machine-precision number to $sqrt{17}$.
If you change your code to
t = 4642204239785223/1125899906842624;
d = 0;
n = 11;
a = ConstantArray[0, n];
Do[a[[i]] = Floor[t + d]; t = 1/(t - Floor[t + d]), {i, 1, n}];
a
you get a similar answer to the d=0.0 case:
(* {4, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 7, 2} *)
Another way of seeing this is that you're doing a continued-fraction representation, which differs when you convert a number to its machine-precision representation:
ContinuedFraction[Sqrt[17]]
(* {4, {8}} *)
ContinuedFraction[Sqrt[17] // N]
(* {4, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8} *)
Notice that the builtin ContinuedFraction command stops before spitting out "wrong" digits due to machine-precision issues.
answered 6 hours ago
RomanRoman
833511
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Two comments rolled into one.
Try using extended precision numbers like:
d = 0``1
Also try a different programming style to get things cleaner and a bit faster:
t = Sqrt[17];
d = 0``1;
d + NestList[1/(# - Floor[# + d]) &, t, 200] // Floor // RepeatedTiming
{0.0055, {4, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8}}
answered 5 hours ago
b3m2a1b3m2a1
27.6k257161
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Your algorithm is probing the limits of machine precision numbers.
When you add Sqrt[17]+0 you get $sqrt{17}$ with infinite precision:
Sqrt[17] + 0
(* Sqrt[17] *)
When you add Sqrt[17]+0.0 you get much less precision:
Sqrt[17] + 0.0 // FullForm
(* 4.123105625617661` *)
The number you're effectively dealing with in the d=0.0 case is not $t=sqrt{17}$ but
SetPrecision[Sqrt[17] + 0.0, ∞]
(* 4642204239785223/1125899906842624 *)
which is the closest available machine-precision number to $sqrt{17}$.
If you change your code to
t = 4642204239785223/1125899906842624;
d = 0;
n = 11;
a = ConstantArray[0, n];
Do[a[[i]] = Floor[t + d]; t = 1/(t - Floor[t + d]), {i, 1, n}];
a
you get a similar answer to the d=0.0 case:
(* {4, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 7, 2} *)
Another way of seeing this is that you're doing a continued-fraction representation, which differs when you convert a number to its machine-precision representation:
ContinuedFraction[Sqrt[17]]
(* {4, {8}} *)
ContinuedFraction[Sqrt[17] // N]
(* {4, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8} *)
Notice that the builtin ContinuedFraction command stops before spitting out "wrong" digits due to machine-precision issues.
answered 6 hours ago
RomanRoman
833511
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Your algorithm is probing the limits of machine precision numbers.
When you add Sqrt[17]+0 you get $sqrt{17}$ with infinite precision:
Sqrt[17] + 0
(* Sqrt[17] *)
When you add Sqrt[17]+0.0 you get much less precision:
Sqrt[17] + 0.0 // FullForm
(* 4.123105625617661` *)
The number you're effectively dealing with in the d=0.0 case is not $t=sqrt{17}$ but
SetPrecision[Sqrt[17] + 0.0, ∞]
(* 4642204239785223/1125899906842624 *)
which is the closest available machine-precision number to $sqrt{17}$.
If you change your code to
t = 4642204239785223/1125899906842624;
d = 0;
n = 11;
a = ConstantArray[0, n];
Do[a[[i]] = Floor[t + d]; t = 1/(t - Floor[t + d]), {i, 1, n}];
a
you get a similar answer to the d=0.0 case:
(* {4, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 7, 2} *)
Another way of seeing this is that you're doing a continued-fraction representation, which differs when you convert a number to its machine-precision representation:
ContinuedFraction[Sqrt[17]]
(* {4, {8}} *)
ContinuedFraction[Sqrt[17] // N]
(* {4, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8} *)
Notice that the builtin ContinuedFraction command stops before spitting out "wrong" digits due to machine-precision issues.
answered 6 hours ago
RomanRoman
833511
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Your algorithm is probing the limits of machine precision numbers.
When you add Sqrt[17]+0 you get $sqrt{17}$ with infinite precision:
Sqrt[17] + 0
(* Sqrt[17] *)
When you add Sqrt[17]+0.0 you get much less precision:
Sqrt[17] + 0.0 // FullForm
(* 4.123105625617661` *)
The number you're effectively dealing with in the d=0.0 case is not $t=sqrt{17}$ but
SetPrecision[Sqrt[17] + 0.0, ∞]
(* 4642204239785223/1125899906842624 *)
which is the closest available machine-precision number to $sqrt{17}$.
If you change your code to
t = 4642204239785223/1125899906842624;
d = 0;
n = 11;
a = ConstantArray[0, n];
Do[a[[i]] = Floor[t + d]; t = 1/(t - Floor[t + d]), {i, 1, n}];
a
you get a similar answer to the d=0.0 case:
(* {4, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 7, 2} *)
Another way of seeing this is that you're doing a continued-fraction representation, which differs when you convert a number to its machine-precision representation:
ContinuedFraction[Sqrt[17]]
(* {4, {8}} *)
ContinuedFraction[Sqrt[17] // N]
(* {4, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8} *)
Notice that the builtin ContinuedFraction command stops before spitting out "wrong" digits due to machine-precision issues.
answered 6 hours ago
RomanRoman
833511
$endgroup$
Your algorithm is probing the limits of machine precision numbers.
When you add Sqrt[17]+0 you get $sqrt{17}$ with infinite precision:
Sqrt[17] + 0
(* Sqrt[17] *)
When you add Sqrt[17]+0.0 you get much less precision:
Sqrt[17] + 0.0 // FullForm
(* 4.123105625617661` *)
The number you're effectively dealing with in the d=0.0 case is not $t=sqrt{17}$ but
SetPrecision[Sqrt[17] + 0.0, ∞]
(* 4642204239785223/1125899906842624 *)
which is the closest available machine-precision number to $sqrt{17}$.
If you change your code to
t = 4642204239785223/1125899906842624;
d = 0;
n = 11;
a = ConstantArray[0, n];
Do[a[[i]] = Floor[t + d]; t = 1/(t - Floor[t + d]), {i, 1, n}];
a
you get a similar answer to the d=0.0 case:
(* {4, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 7, 2} *)
Another way of seeing this is that you're doing a continued-fraction representation, which differs when you convert a number to its machine-precision representation:
ContinuedFraction[Sqrt[17]]
(* {4, {8}} *)
ContinuedFraction[Sqrt[17] // N]
(* {4, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8} *)
Notice that the builtin ContinuedFraction command stops before spitting out "wrong" digits due to machine-precision issues.
answered 6 hours ago
RomanRoman
833511
edited 6 hours ago
answered 6 hours ago
RomanRoman
833511
answered 6 hours ago
RomanRoman
833511
answered 6 hours ago
RomanRoman
833511
833511
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Two comments rolled into one.
Try using extended precision numbers like:
d = 0``1
Also try a different programming style to get things cleaner and a bit faster:
t = Sqrt[17];
d = 0``1;
d + NestList[1/(# - Floor[# + d]) &, t, 200] // Floor // RepeatedTiming
{0.0055, {4, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8}}
answered 5 hours ago
b3m2a1b3m2a1
27.6k257161
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Two comments rolled into one.
Try using extended precision numbers like:
d = 0``1
Also try a different programming style to get things cleaner and a bit faster:
t = Sqrt[17];
d = 0``1;
d + NestList[1/(# - Floor[# + d]) &, t, 200] // Floor // RepeatedTiming
{0.0055, {4, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8}}
answered 5 hours ago
b3m2a1b3m2a1
27.6k257161
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Two comments rolled into one.
Try using extended precision numbers like:
d = 0``1
Also try a different programming style to get things cleaner and a bit faster:
t = Sqrt[17];
d = 0``1;
d + NestList[1/(# - Floor[# + d]) &, t, 200] // Floor // RepeatedTiming
{0.0055, {4, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8}}
answered 5 hours ago
b3m2a1b3m2a1
27.6k257161
$endgroup$
Two comments rolled into one.
Try using extended precision numbers like:
d = 0``1
Also try a different programming style to get things cleaner and a bit faster:
t = Sqrt[17];
d = 0``1;
d + NestList[1/(# - Floor[# + d]) &, t, 200] // Floor // RepeatedTiming
{0.0055, {4, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
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8}}
answered 5 hours ago
b3m2a1b3m2a1
27.6k257161
answered 5 hours ago
b3m2a1b3m2a1
27.6k257161
answered 5 hours ago
b3m2a1b3m2a1
27.6k257161
answered 5 hours ago
b3m2a1b3m2a1
27.6k257161
27.6k257161
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1
$begingroup$
The presence of any machine precision number (including
0.0) will result in the calculation being done with machine precision.$endgroup$
– Bob Hanlon
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
By using an extended precision version of
0you can get a small speedup from using numbers instead of full symbolic expressions but without sacrificing accuracy. Tryd=0``1.$endgroup$
– b3m2a1
5 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Also in terms of programming style this is probably faster:
d + NestList[1/(# - Floor[# + d]) &, t, 200] // Floor // RepeatedTiming$endgroup$
– b3m2a1
5 hours ago