Reducible and Irreducible polynomials are confusing me











up vote
3
down vote

favorite












The definition claims that a polynomial in a field of positive degree is a reducible polynomial when it can be written as the product of 2 polynomials in the field with positive degrees. Other wise it is irreducible.



So if a polynomial $f(x)$ can be written as the product of say $41(x^2 + x)$, is that considered not reducible because 41 is really $41x^0$, and 0 isn't technically positive, but by the definition of a polynomial in a field it is a polynomial if $a_n$ isn't 0 for the highest degree $n$ where $n geq 0$.



So would the example of the polynomial example I gave be reducible or irreducible?










share|cite|improve this question


























    up vote
    3
    down vote

    favorite












    The definition claims that a polynomial in a field of positive degree is a reducible polynomial when it can be written as the product of 2 polynomials in the field with positive degrees. Other wise it is irreducible.



    So if a polynomial $f(x)$ can be written as the product of say $41(x^2 + x)$, is that considered not reducible because 41 is really $41x^0$, and 0 isn't technically positive, but by the definition of a polynomial in a field it is a polynomial if $a_n$ isn't 0 for the highest degree $n$ where $n geq 0$.



    So would the example of the polynomial example I gave be reducible or irreducible?










    share|cite|improve this question
























      up vote
      3
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      3
      down vote

      favorite











      The definition claims that a polynomial in a field of positive degree is a reducible polynomial when it can be written as the product of 2 polynomials in the field with positive degrees. Other wise it is irreducible.



      So if a polynomial $f(x)$ can be written as the product of say $41(x^2 + x)$, is that considered not reducible because 41 is really $41x^0$, and 0 isn't technically positive, but by the definition of a polynomial in a field it is a polynomial if $a_n$ isn't 0 for the highest degree $n$ where $n geq 0$.



      So would the example of the polynomial example I gave be reducible or irreducible?










      share|cite|improve this question













      The definition claims that a polynomial in a field of positive degree is a reducible polynomial when it can be written as the product of 2 polynomials in the field with positive degrees. Other wise it is irreducible.



      So if a polynomial $f(x)$ can be written as the product of say $41(x^2 + x)$, is that considered not reducible because 41 is really $41x^0$, and 0 isn't technically positive, but by the definition of a polynomial in a field it is a polynomial if $a_n$ isn't 0 for the highest degree $n$ where $n geq 0$.



      So would the example of the polynomial example I gave be reducible or irreducible?







      linear-algebra






      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question











      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question










      asked 1 hour ago









      ming

      424




      424






















          3 Answers
          3






          active

          oldest

          votes

















          up vote
          9
          down vote













          This particular example would be reducible, but not because of the reason you give -- it would be because you could write it as $41x(x+1)$. Note that $0$ is not positive, so the factorization you give is not a product of two polynomials with positive degree ($41$ is a polynomial of degree $0$).






          share|cite|improve this answer

















          • 2




            So if it was $41(x + 1)$ it would be irreducible right? Because 41 cannot be written with a degree of anything greater than 0, and 0 is not positive?
            – ming
            1 hour ago












          • Correct, $41x + 41$ is irreducible (assuming you are working over $mathbb{Z}[x]$).
            – platty
            1 hour ago










          • It is reducible in Z[x] as 41 is not a unit.
            – Hans
            9 mins ago










          • I think the definition of irreducible as a polynomial requires that both factors be non-constant; I'm not sure why I added that stipulation. Otherwise you run into uniqueness issues with something like $4x+4$.
            – platty
            4 mins ago


















          up vote
          3
          down vote














          Definition : Given an integral domain $R$, a non-zero non-unit element $r in R$ is said to be irreducible if it cannot be written as a product of non-units i.e. whenever it is written as a product of two elements, at least one of them is a unit in $R$.




          For polynomials, this becomes :




          Definition : Given an integral domain $R$, the ring $R[X]$ also is an integral domain, and $f$ is an irreducible polynomial over $R$ if it is an irreducible element of $R[X]$.




          So, it is that simple. Let us take some examples to clarify.




          • The polynomial $f(x) = x$ is irreducible over any ring, since if $a(x)b(x) =x$, then WLOG $a$ must be a constant polynomial with the constant being a unit(use the rules for multiplication of polynomials), so $a$ is a unit in $R[X]$, hence $x$ is irreducible.


          • The polynomial $f(x) = 2x+2$ is irreducible over $mathbb R[X]$. This is because if $a(x)b(x)$ divides $2(x+1)$ then at least one of $a(x)$ or $b(x)$ is a constant polynomial, but every constant polynomial is a unit in $mathbb R$. However, this polynomial is reducible over $mathbb Z[X]$, since here, $2(x+1)$ counts as a non-unit factorization, because $2$ is not a unit.



          Therefore, reducibility depends on "over which ring/field"? For example, $41 = 41x^0$ is a constant polynomial, but it isn't a unit in $mathbb Z[X]$, while it is one in $mathbb R[X]$. So, a polynomial like $41(x+1)$ is irreducible over the latter but not over the former.





          While working over a field, it turns out that the set of units of $F[X]$ is equal to the non-zero constant polynomials. Therefore, any polynomial is irreducible in $F[X]$ if and only if it can be written as the product of two non-constant polynomials. Things will change for a ring which is not a field, since some non-constant polynomials may possibly not be units.



          Also, note that $41(x^2+x)$ is reducible in every field, since it can be written as $(41 x) times (x+1)$ which is the product of two non-constant polynomials, which are always non-units by the fact that the degree is multiplicative.






          share|cite|improve this answer




























            up vote
            -1
            down vote













            A polynomial $f(x)$ is irreducible if $f(x)=g(x)h(x)$ with $deg(g(x)) ge 1$, and $deg(h(x)) ge 1$






            share|cite|improve this answer





















            • Do you mean reducible? I don't see how your answer helps as OP has clearly mentioned the definition.
              – Thomas Shelby
              41 mins ago











            Your Answer





            StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
            return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
            StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
            StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
            });
            });
            }, "mathjax-editing");

            StackExchange.ready(function() {
            var channelOptions = {
            tags: "".split(" "),
            id: "69"
            };
            initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

            StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
            // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
            if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
            StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
            createEditor();
            });
            }
            else {
            createEditor();
            }
            });

            function createEditor() {
            StackExchange.prepareEditor({
            heartbeatType: 'answer',
            convertImagesToLinks: true,
            noModals: true,
            showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
            reputationToPostImages: 10,
            bindNavPrevention: true,
            postfix: "",
            imageUploader: {
            brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
            contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
            allowUrls: true
            },
            noCode: true, onDemand: true,
            discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
            ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
            });


            }
            });














             

            draft saved


            draft discarded


















            StackExchange.ready(
            function () {
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3016802%2freducible-and-irreducible-polynomials-are-confusing-me%23new-answer', 'question_page');
            }
            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown

























            3 Answers
            3






            active

            oldest

            votes








            3 Answers
            3






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes








            up vote
            9
            down vote













            This particular example would be reducible, but not because of the reason you give -- it would be because you could write it as $41x(x+1)$. Note that $0$ is not positive, so the factorization you give is not a product of two polynomials with positive degree ($41$ is a polynomial of degree $0$).






            share|cite|improve this answer

















            • 2




              So if it was $41(x + 1)$ it would be irreducible right? Because 41 cannot be written with a degree of anything greater than 0, and 0 is not positive?
              – ming
              1 hour ago












            • Correct, $41x + 41$ is irreducible (assuming you are working over $mathbb{Z}[x]$).
              – platty
              1 hour ago










            • It is reducible in Z[x] as 41 is not a unit.
              – Hans
              9 mins ago










            • I think the definition of irreducible as a polynomial requires that both factors be non-constant; I'm not sure why I added that stipulation. Otherwise you run into uniqueness issues with something like $4x+4$.
              – platty
              4 mins ago















            up vote
            9
            down vote













            This particular example would be reducible, but not because of the reason you give -- it would be because you could write it as $41x(x+1)$. Note that $0$ is not positive, so the factorization you give is not a product of two polynomials with positive degree ($41$ is a polynomial of degree $0$).






            share|cite|improve this answer

















            • 2




              So if it was $41(x + 1)$ it would be irreducible right? Because 41 cannot be written with a degree of anything greater than 0, and 0 is not positive?
              – ming
              1 hour ago












            • Correct, $41x + 41$ is irreducible (assuming you are working over $mathbb{Z}[x]$).
              – platty
              1 hour ago










            • It is reducible in Z[x] as 41 is not a unit.
              – Hans
              9 mins ago










            • I think the definition of irreducible as a polynomial requires that both factors be non-constant; I'm not sure why I added that stipulation. Otherwise you run into uniqueness issues with something like $4x+4$.
              – platty
              4 mins ago













            up vote
            9
            down vote










            up vote
            9
            down vote









            This particular example would be reducible, but not because of the reason you give -- it would be because you could write it as $41x(x+1)$. Note that $0$ is not positive, so the factorization you give is not a product of two polynomials with positive degree ($41$ is a polynomial of degree $0$).






            share|cite|improve this answer












            This particular example would be reducible, but not because of the reason you give -- it would be because you could write it as $41x(x+1)$. Note that $0$ is not positive, so the factorization you give is not a product of two polynomials with positive degree ($41$ is a polynomial of degree $0$).







            share|cite|improve this answer












            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer










            answered 1 hour ago









            platty

            1,877211




            1,877211








            • 2




              So if it was $41(x + 1)$ it would be irreducible right? Because 41 cannot be written with a degree of anything greater than 0, and 0 is not positive?
              – ming
              1 hour ago












            • Correct, $41x + 41$ is irreducible (assuming you are working over $mathbb{Z}[x]$).
              – platty
              1 hour ago










            • It is reducible in Z[x] as 41 is not a unit.
              – Hans
              9 mins ago










            • I think the definition of irreducible as a polynomial requires that both factors be non-constant; I'm not sure why I added that stipulation. Otherwise you run into uniqueness issues with something like $4x+4$.
              – platty
              4 mins ago














            • 2




              So if it was $41(x + 1)$ it would be irreducible right? Because 41 cannot be written with a degree of anything greater than 0, and 0 is not positive?
              – ming
              1 hour ago












            • Correct, $41x + 41$ is irreducible (assuming you are working over $mathbb{Z}[x]$).
              – platty
              1 hour ago










            • It is reducible in Z[x] as 41 is not a unit.
              – Hans
              9 mins ago










            • I think the definition of irreducible as a polynomial requires that both factors be non-constant; I'm not sure why I added that stipulation. Otherwise you run into uniqueness issues with something like $4x+4$.
              – platty
              4 mins ago








            2




            2




            So if it was $41(x + 1)$ it would be irreducible right? Because 41 cannot be written with a degree of anything greater than 0, and 0 is not positive?
            – ming
            1 hour ago






            So if it was $41(x + 1)$ it would be irreducible right? Because 41 cannot be written with a degree of anything greater than 0, and 0 is not positive?
            – ming
            1 hour ago














            Correct, $41x + 41$ is irreducible (assuming you are working over $mathbb{Z}[x]$).
            – platty
            1 hour ago




            Correct, $41x + 41$ is irreducible (assuming you are working over $mathbb{Z}[x]$).
            – platty
            1 hour ago












            It is reducible in Z[x] as 41 is not a unit.
            – Hans
            9 mins ago




            It is reducible in Z[x] as 41 is not a unit.
            – Hans
            9 mins ago












            I think the definition of irreducible as a polynomial requires that both factors be non-constant; I'm not sure why I added that stipulation. Otherwise you run into uniqueness issues with something like $4x+4$.
            – platty
            4 mins ago




            I think the definition of irreducible as a polynomial requires that both factors be non-constant; I'm not sure why I added that stipulation. Otherwise you run into uniqueness issues with something like $4x+4$.
            – platty
            4 mins ago










            up vote
            3
            down vote














            Definition : Given an integral domain $R$, a non-zero non-unit element $r in R$ is said to be irreducible if it cannot be written as a product of non-units i.e. whenever it is written as a product of two elements, at least one of them is a unit in $R$.




            For polynomials, this becomes :




            Definition : Given an integral domain $R$, the ring $R[X]$ also is an integral domain, and $f$ is an irreducible polynomial over $R$ if it is an irreducible element of $R[X]$.




            So, it is that simple. Let us take some examples to clarify.




            • The polynomial $f(x) = x$ is irreducible over any ring, since if $a(x)b(x) =x$, then WLOG $a$ must be a constant polynomial with the constant being a unit(use the rules for multiplication of polynomials), so $a$ is a unit in $R[X]$, hence $x$ is irreducible.


            • The polynomial $f(x) = 2x+2$ is irreducible over $mathbb R[X]$. This is because if $a(x)b(x)$ divides $2(x+1)$ then at least one of $a(x)$ or $b(x)$ is a constant polynomial, but every constant polynomial is a unit in $mathbb R$. However, this polynomial is reducible over $mathbb Z[X]$, since here, $2(x+1)$ counts as a non-unit factorization, because $2$ is not a unit.



            Therefore, reducibility depends on "over which ring/field"? For example, $41 = 41x^0$ is a constant polynomial, but it isn't a unit in $mathbb Z[X]$, while it is one in $mathbb R[X]$. So, a polynomial like $41(x+1)$ is irreducible over the latter but not over the former.





            While working over a field, it turns out that the set of units of $F[X]$ is equal to the non-zero constant polynomials. Therefore, any polynomial is irreducible in $F[X]$ if and only if it can be written as the product of two non-constant polynomials. Things will change for a ring which is not a field, since some non-constant polynomials may possibly not be units.



            Also, note that $41(x^2+x)$ is reducible in every field, since it can be written as $(41 x) times (x+1)$ which is the product of two non-constant polynomials, which are always non-units by the fact that the degree is multiplicative.






            share|cite|improve this answer

























              up vote
              3
              down vote














              Definition : Given an integral domain $R$, a non-zero non-unit element $r in R$ is said to be irreducible if it cannot be written as a product of non-units i.e. whenever it is written as a product of two elements, at least one of them is a unit in $R$.




              For polynomials, this becomes :




              Definition : Given an integral domain $R$, the ring $R[X]$ also is an integral domain, and $f$ is an irreducible polynomial over $R$ if it is an irreducible element of $R[X]$.




              So, it is that simple. Let us take some examples to clarify.




              • The polynomial $f(x) = x$ is irreducible over any ring, since if $a(x)b(x) =x$, then WLOG $a$ must be a constant polynomial with the constant being a unit(use the rules for multiplication of polynomials), so $a$ is a unit in $R[X]$, hence $x$ is irreducible.


              • The polynomial $f(x) = 2x+2$ is irreducible over $mathbb R[X]$. This is because if $a(x)b(x)$ divides $2(x+1)$ then at least one of $a(x)$ or $b(x)$ is a constant polynomial, but every constant polynomial is a unit in $mathbb R$. However, this polynomial is reducible over $mathbb Z[X]$, since here, $2(x+1)$ counts as a non-unit factorization, because $2$ is not a unit.



              Therefore, reducibility depends on "over which ring/field"? For example, $41 = 41x^0$ is a constant polynomial, but it isn't a unit in $mathbb Z[X]$, while it is one in $mathbb R[X]$. So, a polynomial like $41(x+1)$ is irreducible over the latter but not over the former.





              While working over a field, it turns out that the set of units of $F[X]$ is equal to the non-zero constant polynomials. Therefore, any polynomial is irreducible in $F[X]$ if and only if it can be written as the product of two non-constant polynomials. Things will change for a ring which is not a field, since some non-constant polynomials may possibly not be units.



              Also, note that $41(x^2+x)$ is reducible in every field, since it can be written as $(41 x) times (x+1)$ which is the product of two non-constant polynomials, which are always non-units by the fact that the degree is multiplicative.






              share|cite|improve this answer























                up vote
                3
                down vote










                up vote
                3
                down vote










                Definition : Given an integral domain $R$, a non-zero non-unit element $r in R$ is said to be irreducible if it cannot be written as a product of non-units i.e. whenever it is written as a product of two elements, at least one of them is a unit in $R$.




                For polynomials, this becomes :




                Definition : Given an integral domain $R$, the ring $R[X]$ also is an integral domain, and $f$ is an irreducible polynomial over $R$ if it is an irreducible element of $R[X]$.




                So, it is that simple. Let us take some examples to clarify.




                • The polynomial $f(x) = x$ is irreducible over any ring, since if $a(x)b(x) =x$, then WLOG $a$ must be a constant polynomial with the constant being a unit(use the rules for multiplication of polynomials), so $a$ is a unit in $R[X]$, hence $x$ is irreducible.


                • The polynomial $f(x) = 2x+2$ is irreducible over $mathbb R[X]$. This is because if $a(x)b(x)$ divides $2(x+1)$ then at least one of $a(x)$ or $b(x)$ is a constant polynomial, but every constant polynomial is a unit in $mathbb R$. However, this polynomial is reducible over $mathbb Z[X]$, since here, $2(x+1)$ counts as a non-unit factorization, because $2$ is not a unit.



                Therefore, reducibility depends on "over which ring/field"? For example, $41 = 41x^0$ is a constant polynomial, but it isn't a unit in $mathbb Z[X]$, while it is one in $mathbb R[X]$. So, a polynomial like $41(x+1)$ is irreducible over the latter but not over the former.





                While working over a field, it turns out that the set of units of $F[X]$ is equal to the non-zero constant polynomials. Therefore, any polynomial is irreducible in $F[X]$ if and only if it can be written as the product of two non-constant polynomials. Things will change for a ring which is not a field, since some non-constant polynomials may possibly not be units.



                Also, note that $41(x^2+x)$ is reducible in every field, since it can be written as $(41 x) times (x+1)$ which is the product of two non-constant polynomials, which are always non-units by the fact that the degree is multiplicative.






                share|cite|improve this answer













                Definition : Given an integral domain $R$, a non-zero non-unit element $r in R$ is said to be irreducible if it cannot be written as a product of non-units i.e. whenever it is written as a product of two elements, at least one of them is a unit in $R$.




                For polynomials, this becomes :




                Definition : Given an integral domain $R$, the ring $R[X]$ also is an integral domain, and $f$ is an irreducible polynomial over $R$ if it is an irreducible element of $R[X]$.




                So, it is that simple. Let us take some examples to clarify.




                • The polynomial $f(x) = x$ is irreducible over any ring, since if $a(x)b(x) =x$, then WLOG $a$ must be a constant polynomial with the constant being a unit(use the rules for multiplication of polynomials), so $a$ is a unit in $R[X]$, hence $x$ is irreducible.


                • The polynomial $f(x) = 2x+2$ is irreducible over $mathbb R[X]$. This is because if $a(x)b(x)$ divides $2(x+1)$ then at least one of $a(x)$ or $b(x)$ is a constant polynomial, but every constant polynomial is a unit in $mathbb R$. However, this polynomial is reducible over $mathbb Z[X]$, since here, $2(x+1)$ counts as a non-unit factorization, because $2$ is not a unit.



                Therefore, reducibility depends on "over which ring/field"? For example, $41 = 41x^0$ is a constant polynomial, but it isn't a unit in $mathbb Z[X]$, while it is one in $mathbb R[X]$. So, a polynomial like $41(x+1)$ is irreducible over the latter but not over the former.





                While working over a field, it turns out that the set of units of $F[X]$ is equal to the non-zero constant polynomials. Therefore, any polynomial is irreducible in $F[X]$ if and only if it can be written as the product of two non-constant polynomials. Things will change for a ring which is not a field, since some non-constant polynomials may possibly not be units.



                Also, note that $41(x^2+x)$ is reducible in every field, since it can be written as $(41 x) times (x+1)$ which is the product of two non-constant polynomials, which are always non-units by the fact that the degree is multiplicative.







                share|cite|improve this answer












                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer










                answered 1 hour ago









                астон вілла олоф мэллбэрг

                36.6k33376




                36.6k33376






















                    up vote
                    -1
                    down vote













                    A polynomial $f(x)$ is irreducible if $f(x)=g(x)h(x)$ with $deg(g(x)) ge 1$, and $deg(h(x)) ge 1$






                    share|cite|improve this answer





















                    • Do you mean reducible? I don't see how your answer helps as OP has clearly mentioned the definition.
                      – Thomas Shelby
                      41 mins ago















                    up vote
                    -1
                    down vote













                    A polynomial $f(x)$ is irreducible if $f(x)=g(x)h(x)$ with $deg(g(x)) ge 1$, and $deg(h(x)) ge 1$






                    share|cite|improve this answer





















                    • Do you mean reducible? I don't see how your answer helps as OP has clearly mentioned the definition.
                      – Thomas Shelby
                      41 mins ago













                    up vote
                    -1
                    down vote










                    up vote
                    -1
                    down vote









                    A polynomial $f(x)$ is irreducible if $f(x)=g(x)h(x)$ with $deg(g(x)) ge 1$, and $deg(h(x)) ge 1$






                    share|cite|improve this answer












                    A polynomial $f(x)$ is irreducible if $f(x)=g(x)h(x)$ with $deg(g(x)) ge 1$, and $deg(h(x)) ge 1$







                    share|cite|improve this answer












                    share|cite|improve this answer



                    share|cite|improve this answer










                    answered 50 mins ago









                    Fareed AF

                    35411




                    35411












                    • Do you mean reducible? I don't see how your answer helps as OP has clearly mentioned the definition.
                      – Thomas Shelby
                      41 mins ago


















                    • Do you mean reducible? I don't see how your answer helps as OP has clearly mentioned the definition.
                      – Thomas Shelby
                      41 mins ago
















                    Do you mean reducible? I don't see how your answer helps as OP has clearly mentioned the definition.
                    – Thomas Shelby
                    41 mins ago




                    Do you mean reducible? I don't see how your answer helps as OP has clearly mentioned the definition.
                    – Thomas Shelby
                    41 mins ago


















                     

                    draft saved


                    draft discarded



















































                     


                    draft saved


                    draft discarded














                    StackExchange.ready(
                    function () {
                    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3016802%2freducible-and-irreducible-polynomials-are-confusing-me%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                    }
                    );

                    Post as a guest















                    Required, but never shown





















































                    Required, but never shown














                    Required, but never shown












                    Required, but never shown







                    Required, but never shown

































                    Required, but never shown














                    Required, but never shown












                    Required, but never shown







                    Required, but never shown







                    Popular posts from this blog

                    A CLEAN and SIMPLE way to add appendices to Table of Contents and bookmarks

                    Calculate evaluation metrics using cross_val_predict sklearn

                    Insert data from modal to MySQL (multiple modal on website)