Pure Functions: Does “No Side Effects” Imply “Always Same Output, Given Same Input”?












9















The two conditions that define a function as pure are as follows:




  1. No side effects (i.e. only changes to local scope are allowed)

  2. Always return the same output, given the same input


If the first condition is always true, are there any times the second condition is not true?



I.e. is it really only necessary with the first condition?










share|improve this question

























  • Your premises are ill-specified. "Input" is too broad. Functions can be thought two have kinds of input. Their arguments, and "environmental"/"contextual". A function that returns the system time could be thought to be pure (even though it's obv not) if you don't distinguish between these two kinds of input.

    – Alexander
    26 mins ago
















9















The two conditions that define a function as pure are as follows:




  1. No side effects (i.e. only changes to local scope are allowed)

  2. Always return the same output, given the same input


If the first condition is always true, are there any times the second condition is not true?



I.e. is it really only necessary with the first condition?










share|improve this question

























  • Your premises are ill-specified. "Input" is too broad. Functions can be thought two have kinds of input. Their arguments, and "environmental"/"contextual". A function that returns the system time could be thought to be pure (even though it's obv not) if you don't distinguish between these two kinds of input.

    – Alexander
    26 mins ago














9












9








9








The two conditions that define a function as pure are as follows:




  1. No side effects (i.e. only changes to local scope are allowed)

  2. Always return the same output, given the same input


If the first condition is always true, are there any times the second condition is not true?



I.e. is it really only necessary with the first condition?










share|improve this question
















The two conditions that define a function as pure are as follows:




  1. No side effects (i.e. only changes to local scope are allowed)

  2. Always return the same output, given the same input


If the first condition is always true, are there any times the second condition is not true?



I.e. is it really only necessary with the first condition?







javascript functional-programming pure-function






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 4 hours ago









Code-Apprentice

48k1490178




48k1490178










asked 5 hours ago









MagnusMagnus

1,40511025




1,40511025













  • Your premises are ill-specified. "Input" is too broad. Functions can be thought two have kinds of input. Their arguments, and "environmental"/"contextual". A function that returns the system time could be thought to be pure (even though it's obv not) if you don't distinguish between these two kinds of input.

    – Alexander
    26 mins ago



















  • Your premises are ill-specified. "Input" is too broad. Functions can be thought two have kinds of input. Their arguments, and "environmental"/"contextual". A function that returns the system time could be thought to be pure (even though it's obv not) if you don't distinguish between these two kinds of input.

    – Alexander
    26 mins ago

















Your premises are ill-specified. "Input" is too broad. Functions can be thought two have kinds of input. Their arguments, and "environmental"/"contextual". A function that returns the system time could be thought to be pure (even though it's obv not) if you don't distinguish between these two kinds of input.

– Alexander
26 mins ago





Your premises are ill-specified. "Input" is too broad. Functions can be thought two have kinds of input. Their arguments, and "environmental"/"contextual". A function that returns the system time could be thought to be pure (even though it's obv not) if you don't distinguish between these two kinds of input.

– Alexander
26 mins ago












4 Answers
4






active

oldest

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13














Here are a few counterexamples that do not change the outer scope but are still considered impure:




  • function a() { return Date.now(); }

  • function b() { return window.globalMutableVar; }

  • function c() { return prompt("you choose"); }


  • function d() { return Math.random(); } (which admittedly does change the PRNG, but is not considered observable)


Accessing non-constant non-local variables is enough to be able to violate the second condition, the function doesn't need to have any side effect itself if it is going to be affected by other side effects.






share|improve this answer

































    3














    It seems to me that the second condition you have described is a weaker constraint than the first.



    Let me give you an example, suppose you have a function to add one that also logs to the console:



    function addOneAndLog(x) {
    console.log(x);
    return x + 1;
    }


    The second condition you supplied is satisfied: this function always returns the same output when given the same input. It is, however, not a pure function because it includes the side effect of logging to the console.



    A pure function is, strictly speaking, a function that satisfies the property of referential transparency. That is the property that we can replace a function application with the value it produces without changing the behaviour of the program.



    Suppose we have a function that simply adds:



    function addOne(x) {
    return x + 1;
    }


    We can replace addOne(5) with 6 anywhere in our program and nothing will change.



    By contrast, we cannot replace addOneAndLog(x) with the value 6 anywhere in our program without changing behaviour because the first expression results in something being written to the console whereas the second one does not.



    We consider any of this extra behaviour that addOneAndLog(x) performs besides returning output as a side-effect.






    share|improve this answer
























    • this doesn't address the question

      – Empty
      3 hours ago



















    2














    You could have a source of randomness from outside the system. Say part of your calculation includes the room temperature. Executing the function will yield different results each time (depending on the external random element) but you don't really change the state of your program by executing it.



    All I can think of, anyway.






    share|improve this answer
























    • According to me, these "randomness from outside the system" are a form of side effect. Functions with these behaviors are not "pures".

      – Joseph M. Dion
      2 hours ago



















    -2














    I would say that the point 2 (Always return the same output, given the same input) is not a condition but a consequence of point 1 : a function without side effects will always return the same output given the same input.






    share|improve this answer



















    • 1





      That is the whole point of the question. The OP is asking why is it necessary to list both when it seems that one is a consequence of the other. However, the examples above show some good counter examples.

      – Code-Apprentice
      4 hours ago











    • It's possible to have a function with side effects but always returning the same output for an input (console.log(x);return x), and it's possible to have a function with no side effects that returns different values for a given input (return Date.now() + x). The two conditions are independent.

      – Mark
      3 hours ago











    • According to me, the function (return Date.now() + x) is a fonction WITH side effect because it reads something from the outside world (the time).

      – Joseph M. Dion
      2 hours ago











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    4 Answers
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    4 Answers
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    13














    Here are a few counterexamples that do not change the outer scope but are still considered impure:




    • function a() { return Date.now(); }

    • function b() { return window.globalMutableVar; }

    • function c() { return prompt("you choose"); }


    • function d() { return Math.random(); } (which admittedly does change the PRNG, but is not considered observable)


    Accessing non-constant non-local variables is enough to be able to violate the second condition, the function doesn't need to have any side effect itself if it is going to be affected by other side effects.






    share|improve this answer






























      13














      Here are a few counterexamples that do not change the outer scope but are still considered impure:




      • function a() { return Date.now(); }

      • function b() { return window.globalMutableVar; }

      • function c() { return prompt("you choose"); }


      • function d() { return Math.random(); } (which admittedly does change the PRNG, but is not considered observable)


      Accessing non-constant non-local variables is enough to be able to violate the second condition, the function doesn't need to have any side effect itself if it is going to be affected by other side effects.






      share|improve this answer




























        13












        13








        13







        Here are a few counterexamples that do not change the outer scope but are still considered impure:




        • function a() { return Date.now(); }

        • function b() { return window.globalMutableVar; }

        • function c() { return prompt("you choose"); }


        • function d() { return Math.random(); } (which admittedly does change the PRNG, but is not considered observable)


        Accessing non-constant non-local variables is enough to be able to violate the second condition, the function doesn't need to have any side effect itself if it is going to be affected by other side effects.






        share|improve this answer















        Here are a few counterexamples that do not change the outer scope but are still considered impure:




        • function a() { return Date.now(); }

        • function b() { return window.globalMutableVar; }

        • function c() { return prompt("you choose"); }


        • function d() { return Math.random(); } (which admittedly does change the PRNG, but is not considered observable)


        Accessing non-constant non-local variables is enough to be able to violate the second condition, the function doesn't need to have any side effect itself if it is going to be affected by other side effects.







        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited 5 hours ago

























        answered 5 hours ago









        BergiBergi

        375k60566899




        375k60566899

























            3














            It seems to me that the second condition you have described is a weaker constraint than the first.



            Let me give you an example, suppose you have a function to add one that also logs to the console:



            function addOneAndLog(x) {
            console.log(x);
            return x + 1;
            }


            The second condition you supplied is satisfied: this function always returns the same output when given the same input. It is, however, not a pure function because it includes the side effect of logging to the console.



            A pure function is, strictly speaking, a function that satisfies the property of referential transparency. That is the property that we can replace a function application with the value it produces without changing the behaviour of the program.



            Suppose we have a function that simply adds:



            function addOne(x) {
            return x + 1;
            }


            We can replace addOne(5) with 6 anywhere in our program and nothing will change.



            By contrast, we cannot replace addOneAndLog(x) with the value 6 anywhere in our program without changing behaviour because the first expression results in something being written to the console whereas the second one does not.



            We consider any of this extra behaviour that addOneAndLog(x) performs besides returning output as a side-effect.






            share|improve this answer
























            • this doesn't address the question

              – Empty
              3 hours ago
















            3














            It seems to me that the second condition you have described is a weaker constraint than the first.



            Let me give you an example, suppose you have a function to add one that also logs to the console:



            function addOneAndLog(x) {
            console.log(x);
            return x + 1;
            }


            The second condition you supplied is satisfied: this function always returns the same output when given the same input. It is, however, not a pure function because it includes the side effect of logging to the console.



            A pure function is, strictly speaking, a function that satisfies the property of referential transparency. That is the property that we can replace a function application with the value it produces without changing the behaviour of the program.



            Suppose we have a function that simply adds:



            function addOne(x) {
            return x + 1;
            }


            We can replace addOne(5) with 6 anywhere in our program and nothing will change.



            By contrast, we cannot replace addOneAndLog(x) with the value 6 anywhere in our program without changing behaviour because the first expression results in something being written to the console whereas the second one does not.



            We consider any of this extra behaviour that addOneAndLog(x) performs besides returning output as a side-effect.






            share|improve this answer
























            • this doesn't address the question

              – Empty
              3 hours ago














            3












            3








            3







            It seems to me that the second condition you have described is a weaker constraint than the first.



            Let me give you an example, suppose you have a function to add one that also logs to the console:



            function addOneAndLog(x) {
            console.log(x);
            return x + 1;
            }


            The second condition you supplied is satisfied: this function always returns the same output when given the same input. It is, however, not a pure function because it includes the side effect of logging to the console.



            A pure function is, strictly speaking, a function that satisfies the property of referential transparency. That is the property that we can replace a function application with the value it produces without changing the behaviour of the program.



            Suppose we have a function that simply adds:



            function addOne(x) {
            return x + 1;
            }


            We can replace addOne(5) with 6 anywhere in our program and nothing will change.



            By contrast, we cannot replace addOneAndLog(x) with the value 6 anywhere in our program without changing behaviour because the first expression results in something being written to the console whereas the second one does not.



            We consider any of this extra behaviour that addOneAndLog(x) performs besides returning output as a side-effect.






            share|improve this answer













            It seems to me that the second condition you have described is a weaker constraint than the first.



            Let me give you an example, suppose you have a function to add one that also logs to the console:



            function addOneAndLog(x) {
            console.log(x);
            return x + 1;
            }


            The second condition you supplied is satisfied: this function always returns the same output when given the same input. It is, however, not a pure function because it includes the side effect of logging to the console.



            A pure function is, strictly speaking, a function that satisfies the property of referential transparency. That is the property that we can replace a function application with the value it produces without changing the behaviour of the program.



            Suppose we have a function that simply adds:



            function addOne(x) {
            return x + 1;
            }


            We can replace addOne(5) with 6 anywhere in our program and nothing will change.



            By contrast, we cannot replace addOneAndLog(x) with the value 6 anywhere in our program without changing behaviour because the first expression results in something being written to the console whereas the second one does not.



            We consider any of this extra behaviour that addOneAndLog(x) performs besides returning output as a side-effect.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered 4 hours ago









            TheInnerLightTheInnerLight

            10.4k11942




            10.4k11942













            • this doesn't address the question

              – Empty
              3 hours ago



















            • this doesn't address the question

              – Empty
              3 hours ago

















            this doesn't address the question

            – Empty
            3 hours ago





            this doesn't address the question

            – Empty
            3 hours ago











            2














            You could have a source of randomness from outside the system. Say part of your calculation includes the room temperature. Executing the function will yield different results each time (depending on the external random element) but you don't really change the state of your program by executing it.



            All I can think of, anyway.






            share|improve this answer
























            • According to me, these "randomness from outside the system" are a form of side effect. Functions with these behaviors are not "pures".

              – Joseph M. Dion
              2 hours ago
















            2














            You could have a source of randomness from outside the system. Say part of your calculation includes the room temperature. Executing the function will yield different results each time (depending on the external random element) but you don't really change the state of your program by executing it.



            All I can think of, anyway.






            share|improve this answer
























            • According to me, these "randomness from outside the system" are a form of side effect. Functions with these behaviors are not "pures".

              – Joseph M. Dion
              2 hours ago














            2












            2








            2







            You could have a source of randomness from outside the system. Say part of your calculation includes the room temperature. Executing the function will yield different results each time (depending on the external random element) but you don't really change the state of your program by executing it.



            All I can think of, anyway.






            share|improve this answer













            You could have a source of randomness from outside the system. Say part of your calculation includes the room temperature. Executing the function will yield different results each time (depending on the external random element) but you don't really change the state of your program by executing it.



            All I can think of, anyway.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered 5 hours ago









            user3340459user3340459

            7027




            7027













            • According to me, these "randomness from outside the system" are a form of side effect. Functions with these behaviors are not "pures".

              – Joseph M. Dion
              2 hours ago



















            • According to me, these "randomness from outside the system" are a form of side effect. Functions with these behaviors are not "pures".

              – Joseph M. Dion
              2 hours ago

















            According to me, these "randomness from outside the system" are a form of side effect. Functions with these behaviors are not "pures".

            – Joseph M. Dion
            2 hours ago





            According to me, these "randomness from outside the system" are a form of side effect. Functions with these behaviors are not "pures".

            – Joseph M. Dion
            2 hours ago











            -2














            I would say that the point 2 (Always return the same output, given the same input) is not a condition but a consequence of point 1 : a function without side effects will always return the same output given the same input.






            share|improve this answer



















            • 1





              That is the whole point of the question. The OP is asking why is it necessary to list both when it seems that one is a consequence of the other. However, the examples above show some good counter examples.

              – Code-Apprentice
              4 hours ago











            • It's possible to have a function with side effects but always returning the same output for an input (console.log(x);return x), and it's possible to have a function with no side effects that returns different values for a given input (return Date.now() + x). The two conditions are independent.

              – Mark
              3 hours ago











            • According to me, the function (return Date.now() + x) is a fonction WITH side effect because it reads something from the outside world (the time).

              – Joseph M. Dion
              2 hours ago
















            -2














            I would say that the point 2 (Always return the same output, given the same input) is not a condition but a consequence of point 1 : a function without side effects will always return the same output given the same input.






            share|improve this answer



















            • 1





              That is the whole point of the question. The OP is asking why is it necessary to list both when it seems that one is a consequence of the other. However, the examples above show some good counter examples.

              – Code-Apprentice
              4 hours ago











            • It's possible to have a function with side effects but always returning the same output for an input (console.log(x);return x), and it's possible to have a function with no side effects that returns different values for a given input (return Date.now() + x). The two conditions are independent.

              – Mark
              3 hours ago











            • According to me, the function (return Date.now() + x) is a fonction WITH side effect because it reads something from the outside world (the time).

              – Joseph M. Dion
              2 hours ago














            -2












            -2








            -2







            I would say that the point 2 (Always return the same output, given the same input) is not a condition but a consequence of point 1 : a function without side effects will always return the same output given the same input.






            share|improve this answer













            I would say that the point 2 (Always return the same output, given the same input) is not a condition but a consequence of point 1 : a function without side effects will always return the same output given the same input.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered 4 hours ago









            Joseph M. DionJoseph M. Dion

            1724




            1724








            • 1





              That is the whole point of the question. The OP is asking why is it necessary to list both when it seems that one is a consequence of the other. However, the examples above show some good counter examples.

              – Code-Apprentice
              4 hours ago











            • It's possible to have a function with side effects but always returning the same output for an input (console.log(x);return x), and it's possible to have a function with no side effects that returns different values for a given input (return Date.now() + x). The two conditions are independent.

              – Mark
              3 hours ago











            • According to me, the function (return Date.now() + x) is a fonction WITH side effect because it reads something from the outside world (the time).

              – Joseph M. Dion
              2 hours ago














            • 1





              That is the whole point of the question. The OP is asking why is it necessary to list both when it seems that one is a consequence of the other. However, the examples above show some good counter examples.

              – Code-Apprentice
              4 hours ago











            • It's possible to have a function with side effects but always returning the same output for an input (console.log(x);return x), and it's possible to have a function with no side effects that returns different values for a given input (return Date.now() + x). The two conditions are independent.

              – Mark
              3 hours ago











            • According to me, the function (return Date.now() + x) is a fonction WITH side effect because it reads something from the outside world (the time).

              – Joseph M. Dion
              2 hours ago








            1




            1





            That is the whole point of the question. The OP is asking why is it necessary to list both when it seems that one is a consequence of the other. However, the examples above show some good counter examples.

            – Code-Apprentice
            4 hours ago





            That is the whole point of the question. The OP is asking why is it necessary to list both when it seems that one is a consequence of the other. However, the examples above show some good counter examples.

            – Code-Apprentice
            4 hours ago













            It's possible to have a function with side effects but always returning the same output for an input (console.log(x);return x), and it's possible to have a function with no side effects that returns different values for a given input (return Date.now() + x). The two conditions are independent.

            – Mark
            3 hours ago





            It's possible to have a function with side effects but always returning the same output for an input (console.log(x);return x), and it's possible to have a function with no side effects that returns different values for a given input (return Date.now() + x). The two conditions are independent.

            – Mark
            3 hours ago













            According to me, the function (return Date.now() + x) is a fonction WITH side effect because it reads something from the outside world (the time).

            – Joseph M. Dion
            2 hours ago





            According to me, the function (return Date.now() + x) is a fonction WITH side effect because it reads something from the outside world (the time).

            – Joseph M. Dion
            2 hours ago


















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