Is there a condition under which a child can be exempt from honoring his father?












1














This is a serious question seeking sources that discuss the topic.




  1. I speculate that a father that regrets his son being born, does not support him, does not teach him Torah or Mitzvos etc., is considered "תוהא על הראשונות" (Rambam: one that regrets doing a Mitzvah is not rewarded for it.) may somehow lose his right to Kibud Av of the child.


  2. Maybe serious child abuse or even rape can suffice.



Any sources or thoughts on this?






halacha kibbud-av-veim-honoring







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  • "On the day that I was born, Daddy sat down and cried..."--Robert Hunter/Jerry Garcia
    – Gary
    8 hours ago












  • Even a mamzer has to honor his parents, so the answer’s probably “no.”
    – DonielF
    6 hours ago






  • 1




    @donielF a rasha is diff,see my answer
    – sam
    5 hours ago
















1














This is a serious question seeking sources that discuss the topic.




  1. I speculate that a father that regrets his son being born, does not support him, does not teach him Torah or Mitzvos etc., is considered "תוהא על הראשונות" (Rambam: one that regrets doing a Mitzvah is not rewarded for it.) may somehow lose his right to Kibud Av of the child.


  2. Maybe serious child abuse or even rape can suffice.



Any sources or thoughts on this?






halacha kibbud-av-veim-honoring







share|improve this question
























  • "On the day that I was born, Daddy sat down and cried..."--Robert Hunter/Jerry Garcia
    – Gary
    8 hours ago












  • Even a mamzer has to honor his parents, so the answer’s probably “no.”
    – DonielF
    6 hours ago






  • 1




    @donielF a rasha is diff,see my answer
    – sam
    5 hours ago














1












1








1







This is a serious question seeking sources that discuss the topic.




  1. I speculate that a father that regrets his son being born, does not support him, does not teach him Torah or Mitzvos etc., is considered "תוהא על הראשונות" (Rambam: one that regrets doing a Mitzvah is not rewarded for it.) may somehow lose his right to Kibud Av of the child.


  2. Maybe serious child abuse or even rape can suffice.



Any sources or thoughts on this?






halacha kibbud-av-veim-honoring







share|improve this question















This is a serious question seeking sources that discuss the topic.




  1. I speculate that a father that regrets his son being born, does not support him, does not teach him Torah or Mitzvos etc., is considered "תוהא על הראשונות" (Rambam: one that regrets doing a Mitzvah is not rewarded for it.) may somehow lose his right to Kibud Av of the child.


  2. Maybe serious child abuse or even rape can suffice.



Any sources or thoughts on this?






halacha kibbud-av-veim-honoring




halacha kibbud-av-veim-honoring






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 33 mins ago









WAF

16.9k43398




16.9k43398










asked 8 hours ago









Al Berko

4,263426




4,263426












  • "On the day that I was born, Daddy sat down and cried..."--Robert Hunter/Jerry Garcia
    – Gary
    8 hours ago












  • Even a mamzer has to honor his parents, so the answer’s probably “no.”
    – DonielF
    6 hours ago






  • 1




    @donielF a rasha is diff,see my answer
    – sam
    5 hours ago


















  • "On the day that I was born, Daddy sat down and cried..."--Robert Hunter/Jerry Garcia
    – Gary
    8 hours ago












  • Even a mamzer has to honor his parents, so the answer’s probably “no.”
    – DonielF
    6 hours ago






  • 1




    @donielF a rasha is diff,see my answer
    – sam
    5 hours ago
















"On the day that I was born, Daddy sat down and cried..."--Robert Hunter/Jerry Garcia
– Gary
8 hours ago






"On the day that I was born, Daddy sat down and cried..."--Robert Hunter/Jerry Garcia
– Gary
8 hours ago














Even a mamzer has to honor his parents, so the answer’s probably “no.”
– DonielF
6 hours ago




Even a mamzer has to honor his parents, so the answer’s probably “no.”
– DonielF
6 hours ago




1




1




@donielF a rasha is diff,see my answer
– sam
5 hours ago




@donielF a rasha is diff,see my answer
– sam
5 hours ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















4














The Shulchan Aruch 240:18 discusses a father who is a Rasha. The Mechaber holds that there is Kibud av by a Rasha , but Ram"a argues.



Text of SA:



ממזר חייב בכבוד אביו ובמוראו. אפילו היה אביו רשע ובעל עבירות – מכבדו ומתיירא ממנו.



הגה: ויש אומרים דאינו מחוייב לכבד אביו רשע, אלא אם כן עשה תשובה. (טור ומרדכי פרק "כיצד", ובהגהות מיימוני פרק שישי דהלכות ממרים.)



There is a very good Hakira article on this subject.






share|improve this answer



















  • 1




    Good answer, +1. Consider summarizing some of the points in the article.
    – רבות מחשבות
    3 hours ago



















0














I think one can shed light on this issue by examining the sources regarding the term "honor" (sometimes translated also as "respect").



No where does it say to love, appreciate, etc etc. In fact I heard one Rabbi asked by a woman, what if the situation is so tense that every time she tries talking to her mother, things get dicey, and it seems her mother doesn't even want to talk to her. The rabbi's response: you honor her by NOT talking to her...



So yes, honor is required; but look closely at what practical implications this has in halacha.






share|improve this answer








New contributor




Ysiegel is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.


























    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes








    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    4














    The Shulchan Aruch 240:18 discusses a father who is a Rasha. The Mechaber holds that there is Kibud av by a Rasha , but Ram"a argues.



    Text of SA:



    ממזר חייב בכבוד אביו ובמוראו. אפילו היה אביו רשע ובעל עבירות – מכבדו ומתיירא ממנו.



    הגה: ויש אומרים דאינו מחוייב לכבד אביו רשע, אלא אם כן עשה תשובה. (טור ומרדכי פרק "כיצד", ובהגהות מיימוני פרק שישי דהלכות ממרים.)



    There is a very good Hakira article on this subject.






    share|improve this answer



















    • 1




      Good answer, +1. Consider summarizing some of the points in the article.
      – רבות מחשבות
      3 hours ago
















    4














    The Shulchan Aruch 240:18 discusses a father who is a Rasha. The Mechaber holds that there is Kibud av by a Rasha , but Ram"a argues.



    Text of SA:



    ממזר חייב בכבוד אביו ובמוראו. אפילו היה אביו רשע ובעל עבירות – מכבדו ומתיירא ממנו.



    הגה: ויש אומרים דאינו מחוייב לכבד אביו רשע, אלא אם כן עשה תשובה. (טור ומרדכי פרק "כיצד", ובהגהות מיימוני פרק שישי דהלכות ממרים.)



    There is a very good Hakira article on this subject.






    share|improve this answer



















    • 1




      Good answer, +1. Consider summarizing some of the points in the article.
      – רבות מחשבות
      3 hours ago














    4












    4








    4






    The Shulchan Aruch 240:18 discusses a father who is a Rasha. The Mechaber holds that there is Kibud av by a Rasha , but Ram"a argues.



    Text of SA:



    ממזר חייב בכבוד אביו ובמוראו. אפילו היה אביו רשע ובעל עבירות – מכבדו ומתיירא ממנו.



    הגה: ויש אומרים דאינו מחוייב לכבד אביו רשע, אלא אם כן עשה תשובה. (טור ומרדכי פרק "כיצד", ובהגהות מיימוני פרק שישי דהלכות ממרים.)



    There is a very good Hakira article on this subject.






    share|improve this answer














    The Shulchan Aruch 240:18 discusses a father who is a Rasha. The Mechaber holds that there is Kibud av by a Rasha , but Ram"a argues.



    Text of SA:



    ממזר חייב בכבוד אביו ובמוראו. אפילו היה אביו רשע ובעל עבירות – מכבדו ומתיירא ממנו.



    הגה: ויש אומרים דאינו מחוייב לכבד אביו רשע, אלא אם כן עשה תשובה. (טור ומרדכי פרק "כיצד", ובהגהות מיימוני פרק שישי דהלכות ממרים.)



    There is a very good Hakira article on this subject.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited 5 hours ago

























    answered 7 hours ago









    sam

    24.7k14794




    24.7k14794








    • 1




      Good answer, +1. Consider summarizing some of the points in the article.
      – רבות מחשבות
      3 hours ago














    • 1




      Good answer, +1. Consider summarizing some of the points in the article.
      – רבות מחשבות
      3 hours ago








    1




    1




    Good answer, +1. Consider summarizing some of the points in the article.
    – רבות מחשבות
    3 hours ago




    Good answer, +1. Consider summarizing some of the points in the article.
    – רבות מחשבות
    3 hours ago











    0














    I think one can shed light on this issue by examining the sources regarding the term "honor" (sometimes translated also as "respect").



    No where does it say to love, appreciate, etc etc. In fact I heard one Rabbi asked by a woman, what if the situation is so tense that every time she tries talking to her mother, things get dicey, and it seems her mother doesn't even want to talk to her. The rabbi's response: you honor her by NOT talking to her...



    So yes, honor is required; but look closely at what practical implications this has in halacha.






    share|improve this answer








    New contributor




    Ysiegel is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.























      0














      I think one can shed light on this issue by examining the sources regarding the term "honor" (sometimes translated also as "respect").



      No where does it say to love, appreciate, etc etc. In fact I heard one Rabbi asked by a woman, what if the situation is so tense that every time she tries talking to her mother, things get dicey, and it seems her mother doesn't even want to talk to her. The rabbi's response: you honor her by NOT talking to her...



      So yes, honor is required; but look closely at what practical implications this has in halacha.






      share|improve this answer








      New contributor




      Ysiegel is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.





















        0












        0








        0






        I think one can shed light on this issue by examining the sources regarding the term "honor" (sometimes translated also as "respect").



        No where does it say to love, appreciate, etc etc. In fact I heard one Rabbi asked by a woman, what if the situation is so tense that every time she tries talking to her mother, things get dicey, and it seems her mother doesn't even want to talk to her. The rabbi's response: you honor her by NOT talking to her...



        So yes, honor is required; but look closely at what practical implications this has in halacha.






        share|improve this answer








        New contributor




        Ysiegel is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.









        I think one can shed light on this issue by examining the sources regarding the term "honor" (sometimes translated also as "respect").



        No where does it say to love, appreciate, etc etc. In fact I heard one Rabbi asked by a woman, what if the situation is so tense that every time she tries talking to her mother, things get dicey, and it seems her mother doesn't even want to talk to her. The rabbi's response: you honor her by NOT talking to her...



        So yes, honor is required; but look closely at what practical implications this has in halacha.







        share|improve this answer








        New contributor




        Ysiegel is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.









        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer






        New contributor




        Ysiegel is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.









        answered 2 hours ago









        Ysiegel

        613




        613




        New contributor




        Ysiegel is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.





        New contributor





        Ysiegel is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.






        Ysiegel is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.















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