Party hidden prior to attack. Surprise? Advantage? Both?
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Our adroit heroes tracked the goblins back to a small camp in the woods. Completely unaware of the threat around them, the goblins sit around a fire, easy prey to the hidden band of adventurers lurking in the trees.
The party attacks! Arrows rain down, spells are cast, and sword wielders rush in. Our party...
Attacks with advantage because they are hidden?
Only gets a surprise round for catching the goblins unaware?
Both get surprise and advantage?
What are scenarios in which each of the above would occur?
dnd-5e stealth advantage surprise
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up vote
2
down vote
favorite
Our adroit heroes tracked the goblins back to a small camp in the woods. Completely unaware of the threat around them, the goblins sit around a fire, easy prey to the hidden band of adventurers lurking in the trees.
The party attacks! Arrows rain down, spells are cast, and sword wielders rush in. Our party...
Attacks with advantage because they are hidden?
Only gets a surprise round for catching the goblins unaware?
Both get surprise and advantage?
What are scenarios in which each of the above would occur?
dnd-5e stealth advantage surprise
You should keep in mind that there is no concept of a 'surprise round' in 5e; it might be clearer if your question doesn't imply it to be the case.
– Glen_b
7 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
Our adroit heroes tracked the goblins back to a small camp in the woods. Completely unaware of the threat around them, the goblins sit around a fire, easy prey to the hidden band of adventurers lurking in the trees.
The party attacks! Arrows rain down, spells are cast, and sword wielders rush in. Our party...
Attacks with advantage because they are hidden?
Only gets a surprise round for catching the goblins unaware?
Both get surprise and advantage?
What are scenarios in which each of the above would occur?
dnd-5e stealth advantage surprise
Our adroit heroes tracked the goblins back to a small camp in the woods. Completely unaware of the threat around them, the goblins sit around a fire, easy prey to the hidden band of adventurers lurking in the trees.
The party attacks! Arrows rain down, spells are cast, and sword wielders rush in. Our party...
Attacks with advantage because they are hidden?
Only gets a surprise round for catching the goblins unaware?
Both get surprise and advantage?
What are scenarios in which each of the above would occur?
dnd-5e stealth advantage surprise
dnd-5e stealth advantage surprise
edited 2 hours ago
KorvinStarmast
71.7k17225393
71.7k17225393
asked 3 hours ago
SeeDerekEngineer
1,0531932
1,0531932
You should keep in mind that there is no concept of a 'surprise round' in 5e; it might be clearer if your question doesn't imply it to be the case.
– Glen_b
7 mins ago
add a comment |
You should keep in mind that there is no concept of a 'surprise round' in 5e; it might be clearer if your question doesn't imply it to be the case.
– Glen_b
7 mins ago
You should keep in mind that there is no concept of a 'surprise round' in 5e; it might be clearer if your question doesn't imply it to be the case.
– Glen_b
7 mins ago
You should keep in mind that there is no concept of a 'surprise round' in 5e; it might be clearer if your question doesn't imply it to be the case.
– Glen_b
7 mins ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
up vote
7
down vote
accepted
It's all in your description:
Completely unaware of the threat around them, the goblins sit around a fire, easy prey to the hidden band of adventurers lurking in the trees.
You, the GM, have already determined that the goblins are completely unaware and that the adventurers are hidden. (Some GMs might have compared stealth vs. perception, some might let the fiction do the talking for them, you may have done neither; see DMG p. 237 for more on how to decide whether or not to require checks in this instance.)
That the goblins are completely unaware means they are surprised. From PHB p.189 at "Surprise":
Any character or monster that doesn't notice a threat is surprised.
That the adventurers are hidden means that they attack at advantage. From PHB p.195 at "Unseen Attackers and Targets":
When a creature can't see you, you have advantage on attack rolls against it.
So as you describe it your archers and (presumably-ranged casters) would have advantage. Those sword-wielders, though... they lose their advantage as they come into sight and attack (presumably while visible) the goblins in melee.
But wouldnt every Instance of surprise entail the party be hidden. For the enemy to be completely unaware the party must be hidden, no?
– SeeDerekEngineer
3 hours ago
4
@SeeDerekEngineer the classic surprise scenario that doesn't involve hidden attackers is when you and I can hear orcs in the next room, so we bust down the door swords-a-blazin' and attack. We got the drop on them for surprise-purposes, but they can actually see us swinging and so our attacks aren't advantaged. Another might be if we were negotiating with innocent do-gooders while intending to double-cross them the entire time. On your signal we both draw and stab--surprise! (Perhaps contingent on the result of a deception-insight contest.) But seen.
– nitsua60♦
3 hours ago
@SeeDerekEngineer this isn't a line of computer code in a computer game. But wouldnt every Instance of surprise entail the party be hidden
– KorvinStarmast
2 hours ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
7
down vote
accepted
It's all in your description:
Completely unaware of the threat around them, the goblins sit around a fire, easy prey to the hidden band of adventurers lurking in the trees.
You, the GM, have already determined that the goblins are completely unaware and that the adventurers are hidden. (Some GMs might have compared stealth vs. perception, some might let the fiction do the talking for them, you may have done neither; see DMG p. 237 for more on how to decide whether or not to require checks in this instance.)
That the goblins are completely unaware means they are surprised. From PHB p.189 at "Surprise":
Any character or monster that doesn't notice a threat is surprised.
That the adventurers are hidden means that they attack at advantage. From PHB p.195 at "Unseen Attackers and Targets":
When a creature can't see you, you have advantage on attack rolls against it.
So as you describe it your archers and (presumably-ranged casters) would have advantage. Those sword-wielders, though... they lose their advantage as they come into sight and attack (presumably while visible) the goblins in melee.
But wouldnt every Instance of surprise entail the party be hidden. For the enemy to be completely unaware the party must be hidden, no?
– SeeDerekEngineer
3 hours ago
4
@SeeDerekEngineer the classic surprise scenario that doesn't involve hidden attackers is when you and I can hear orcs in the next room, so we bust down the door swords-a-blazin' and attack. We got the drop on them for surprise-purposes, but they can actually see us swinging and so our attacks aren't advantaged. Another might be if we were negotiating with innocent do-gooders while intending to double-cross them the entire time. On your signal we both draw and stab--surprise! (Perhaps contingent on the result of a deception-insight contest.) But seen.
– nitsua60♦
3 hours ago
@SeeDerekEngineer this isn't a line of computer code in a computer game. But wouldnt every Instance of surprise entail the party be hidden
– KorvinStarmast
2 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
7
down vote
accepted
It's all in your description:
Completely unaware of the threat around them, the goblins sit around a fire, easy prey to the hidden band of adventurers lurking in the trees.
You, the GM, have already determined that the goblins are completely unaware and that the adventurers are hidden. (Some GMs might have compared stealth vs. perception, some might let the fiction do the talking for them, you may have done neither; see DMG p. 237 for more on how to decide whether or not to require checks in this instance.)
That the goblins are completely unaware means they are surprised. From PHB p.189 at "Surprise":
Any character or monster that doesn't notice a threat is surprised.
That the adventurers are hidden means that they attack at advantage. From PHB p.195 at "Unseen Attackers and Targets":
When a creature can't see you, you have advantage on attack rolls against it.
So as you describe it your archers and (presumably-ranged casters) would have advantage. Those sword-wielders, though... they lose their advantage as they come into sight and attack (presumably while visible) the goblins in melee.
But wouldnt every Instance of surprise entail the party be hidden. For the enemy to be completely unaware the party must be hidden, no?
– SeeDerekEngineer
3 hours ago
4
@SeeDerekEngineer the classic surprise scenario that doesn't involve hidden attackers is when you and I can hear orcs in the next room, so we bust down the door swords-a-blazin' and attack. We got the drop on them for surprise-purposes, but they can actually see us swinging and so our attacks aren't advantaged. Another might be if we were negotiating with innocent do-gooders while intending to double-cross them the entire time. On your signal we both draw and stab--surprise! (Perhaps contingent on the result of a deception-insight contest.) But seen.
– nitsua60♦
3 hours ago
@SeeDerekEngineer this isn't a line of computer code in a computer game. But wouldnt every Instance of surprise entail the party be hidden
– KorvinStarmast
2 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
7
down vote
accepted
up vote
7
down vote
accepted
It's all in your description:
Completely unaware of the threat around them, the goblins sit around a fire, easy prey to the hidden band of adventurers lurking in the trees.
You, the GM, have already determined that the goblins are completely unaware and that the adventurers are hidden. (Some GMs might have compared stealth vs. perception, some might let the fiction do the talking for them, you may have done neither; see DMG p. 237 for more on how to decide whether or not to require checks in this instance.)
That the goblins are completely unaware means they are surprised. From PHB p.189 at "Surprise":
Any character or monster that doesn't notice a threat is surprised.
That the adventurers are hidden means that they attack at advantage. From PHB p.195 at "Unseen Attackers and Targets":
When a creature can't see you, you have advantage on attack rolls against it.
So as you describe it your archers and (presumably-ranged casters) would have advantage. Those sword-wielders, though... they lose their advantage as they come into sight and attack (presumably while visible) the goblins in melee.
It's all in your description:
Completely unaware of the threat around them, the goblins sit around a fire, easy prey to the hidden band of adventurers lurking in the trees.
You, the GM, have already determined that the goblins are completely unaware and that the adventurers are hidden. (Some GMs might have compared stealth vs. perception, some might let the fiction do the talking for them, you may have done neither; see DMG p. 237 for more on how to decide whether or not to require checks in this instance.)
That the goblins are completely unaware means they are surprised. From PHB p.189 at "Surprise":
Any character or monster that doesn't notice a threat is surprised.
That the adventurers are hidden means that they attack at advantage. From PHB p.195 at "Unseen Attackers and Targets":
When a creature can't see you, you have advantage on attack rolls against it.
So as you describe it your archers and (presumably-ranged casters) would have advantage. Those sword-wielders, though... they lose their advantage as they come into sight and attack (presumably while visible) the goblins in melee.
edited 3 hours ago
answered 3 hours ago
nitsua60♦
71.3k12293416
71.3k12293416
But wouldnt every Instance of surprise entail the party be hidden. For the enemy to be completely unaware the party must be hidden, no?
– SeeDerekEngineer
3 hours ago
4
@SeeDerekEngineer the classic surprise scenario that doesn't involve hidden attackers is when you and I can hear orcs in the next room, so we bust down the door swords-a-blazin' and attack. We got the drop on them for surprise-purposes, but they can actually see us swinging and so our attacks aren't advantaged. Another might be if we were negotiating with innocent do-gooders while intending to double-cross them the entire time. On your signal we both draw and stab--surprise! (Perhaps contingent on the result of a deception-insight contest.) But seen.
– nitsua60♦
3 hours ago
@SeeDerekEngineer this isn't a line of computer code in a computer game. But wouldnt every Instance of surprise entail the party be hidden
– KorvinStarmast
2 hours ago
add a comment |
But wouldnt every Instance of surprise entail the party be hidden. For the enemy to be completely unaware the party must be hidden, no?
– SeeDerekEngineer
3 hours ago
4
@SeeDerekEngineer the classic surprise scenario that doesn't involve hidden attackers is when you and I can hear orcs in the next room, so we bust down the door swords-a-blazin' and attack. We got the drop on them for surprise-purposes, but they can actually see us swinging and so our attacks aren't advantaged. Another might be if we were negotiating with innocent do-gooders while intending to double-cross them the entire time. On your signal we both draw and stab--surprise! (Perhaps contingent on the result of a deception-insight contest.) But seen.
– nitsua60♦
3 hours ago
@SeeDerekEngineer this isn't a line of computer code in a computer game. But wouldnt every Instance of surprise entail the party be hidden
– KorvinStarmast
2 hours ago
But wouldnt every Instance of surprise entail the party be hidden. For the enemy to be completely unaware the party must be hidden, no?
– SeeDerekEngineer
3 hours ago
But wouldnt every Instance of surprise entail the party be hidden. For the enemy to be completely unaware the party must be hidden, no?
– SeeDerekEngineer
3 hours ago
4
4
@SeeDerekEngineer the classic surprise scenario that doesn't involve hidden attackers is when you and I can hear orcs in the next room, so we bust down the door swords-a-blazin' and attack. We got the drop on them for surprise-purposes, but they can actually see us swinging and so our attacks aren't advantaged. Another might be if we were negotiating with innocent do-gooders while intending to double-cross them the entire time. On your signal we both draw and stab--surprise! (Perhaps contingent on the result of a deception-insight contest.) But seen.
– nitsua60♦
3 hours ago
@SeeDerekEngineer the classic surprise scenario that doesn't involve hidden attackers is when you and I can hear orcs in the next room, so we bust down the door swords-a-blazin' and attack. We got the drop on them for surprise-purposes, but they can actually see us swinging and so our attacks aren't advantaged. Another might be if we were negotiating with innocent do-gooders while intending to double-cross them the entire time. On your signal we both draw and stab--surprise! (Perhaps contingent on the result of a deception-insight contest.) But seen.
– nitsua60♦
3 hours ago
@SeeDerekEngineer this isn't a line of computer code in a computer game. But wouldnt every Instance of surprise entail the party be hidden
– KorvinStarmast
2 hours ago
@SeeDerekEngineer this isn't a line of computer code in a computer game. But wouldnt every Instance of surprise entail the party be hidden
– KorvinStarmast
2 hours ago
add a comment |
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You should keep in mind that there is no concept of a 'surprise round' in 5e; it might be clearer if your question doesn't imply it to be the case.
– Glen_b
7 mins ago