Could someone illuminate for me how PGmc *suma and *sama(a) were derived?
Ie, I am assuming that they are both ultimately deriviative of PIE *sem-/*som-.
So, how are they derived from this, in terms of morphemes, and their meanings?
I have skimmed through both Ringe and Beekes. Excellent books, that I want to go through properly in the near future, but this question has been bugging me - the etymology at a later point in time was asked as part of a paper, and it annoyed me that I could not give a full explanation.
Would these two books be the best for getting a coherent understanding of theorised derivation processes and, in particular, PIE verbs? I've had some trouble wrapping my head around what can be said to be diachronic and what synchronic at times, fex when what processes were actively occurring, how salient the underlying analysis of x was, and the like.
Feel free to add sources/references/bibliographical details, I've read around a lot of related literature but not a lot on PIE qua PIE.
Many thanks.
etymology historical-linguistics proto-indo-european proto-germanic
asked 3 hours ago
takeru
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Ie, I am assuming that they are both ultimately deriviative of PIE *sem-/*som-.
So, how are they derived from this, in terms of morphemes, and their meanings?
I have skimmed through both Ringe and Beekes. Excellent books, that I want to go through properly in the near future, but this question has been bugging me - the etymology at a later point in time was asked as part of a paper, and it annoyed me that I could not give a full explanation.
Would these two books be the best for getting a coherent understanding of theorised derivation processes and, in particular, PIE verbs? I've had some trouble wrapping my head around what can be said to be diachronic and what synchronic at times, fex when what processes were actively occurring, how salient the underlying analysis of x was, and the like.
Feel free to add sources/references/bibliographical details, I've read around a lot of related literature but not a lot on PIE qua PIE.
Many thanks.
etymology historical-linguistics proto-indo-european proto-germanic
asked 3 hours ago
takeru
111
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1
Would you mind giving a derivative from each of your reconstructed PGmc roots? For example, I don't know a root *suma, but I do know *sumaz (> ME some); is that the root you're thinking of, or do you mean a separate one that I'm not familiar with?
– Draconis
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Ie, I am assuming that they are both ultimately deriviative of PIE *sem-/*som-.
So, how are they derived from this, in terms of morphemes, and their meanings?
I have skimmed through both Ringe and Beekes. Excellent books, that I want to go through properly in the near future, but this question has been bugging me - the etymology at a later point in time was asked as part of a paper, and it annoyed me that I could not give a full explanation.
Would these two books be the best for getting a coherent understanding of theorised derivation processes and, in particular, PIE verbs? I've had some trouble wrapping my head around what can be said to be diachronic and what synchronic at times, fex when what processes were actively occurring, how salient the underlying analysis of x was, and the like.
Feel free to add sources/references/bibliographical details, I've read around a lot of related literature but not a lot on PIE qua PIE.
Many thanks.
etymology historical-linguistics proto-indo-european proto-germanic
asked 3 hours ago
takeru
111
New contributor
takeru is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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Ie, I am assuming that they are both ultimately deriviative of PIE *sem-/*som-.
So, how are they derived from this, in terms of morphemes, and their meanings?
I have skimmed through both Ringe and Beekes. Excellent books, that I want to go through properly in the near future, but this question has been bugging me - the etymology at a later point in time was asked as part of a paper, and it annoyed me that I could not give a full explanation.
Would these two books be the best for getting a coherent understanding of theorised derivation processes and, in particular, PIE verbs? I've had some trouble wrapping my head around what can be said to be diachronic and what synchronic at times, fex when what processes were actively occurring, how salient the underlying analysis of x was, and the like.
Feel free to add sources/references/bibliographical details, I've read around a lot of related literature but not a lot on PIE qua PIE.
Many thanks.
etymology historical-linguistics proto-indo-european proto-germanic
etymology historical-linguistics proto-indo-european proto-germanic
asked 3 hours ago
takeru
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1
Would you mind giving a derivative from each of your reconstructed PGmc roots? For example, I don't know a root *suma, but I do know *sumaz (> ME some); is that the root you're thinking of, or do you mean a separate one that I'm not familiar with?
– Draconis
2 hours ago
add a comment |
1
Would you mind giving a derivative from each of your reconstructed PGmc roots? For example, I don't know a root *suma, but I do know *sumaz (> ME some); is that the root you're thinking of, or do you mean a separate one that I'm not familiar with?
– Draconis
2 hours ago
1
1
Would you mind giving a derivative from each of your reconstructed PGmc roots? For example, I don't know a root *suma, but I do know *sumaz (> ME some); is that the root you're thinking of, or do you mean a separate one that I'm not familiar with?
– Draconis
2 hours ago
Would you mind giving a derivative from each of your reconstructed PGmc roots? For example, I don't know a root *suma, but I do know *sumaz (> ME some); is that the root you're thinking of, or do you mean a separate one that I'm not familiar with?
– Draconis
2 hours ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
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They are indeed both from the same PIE root, which however is reconstructed with a laryngeal, *semH-.
PGmc *sama- "same" is a thematic derivative from the o-grade of this root, *somH-o-, found in many other IE languages (Gk. ὅμος, Skt. sama-).
PGmc *suma- "someone" is a thematic derivative from the zero grade of this root, *smH-o-, also with cognates e.g. Gk. ἁμο- "any".
Source: Kroonen, Proto-Germanic Dictionary.
answered 1 hour ago
TKR
6,7211536
add a comment |
@Draconis
Should have thought to make an account - and yes, reflexes would have been good practice, thank you.
Yes, I am thinking of *sumaz, the reflexes would be same and some in ModEnglish; OEnglish same/sama, sum; ON samr, sumr (the former is freq in compunds); possibly Sanskrit samá, samā-; etc.
answered 1 hour ago
takeru
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They are indeed both from the same PIE root, which however is reconstructed with a laryngeal, *semH-.
PGmc *sama- "same" is a thematic derivative from the o-grade of this root, *somH-o-, found in many other IE languages (Gk. ὅμος, Skt. sama-).
PGmc *suma- "someone" is a thematic derivative from the zero grade of this root, *smH-o-, also with cognates e.g. Gk. ἁμο- "any".
Source: Kroonen, Proto-Germanic Dictionary.
answered 1 hour ago
TKR
6,7211536
add a comment |
They are indeed both from the same PIE root, which however is reconstructed with a laryngeal, *semH-.
PGmc *sama- "same" is a thematic derivative from the o-grade of this root, *somH-o-, found in many other IE languages (Gk. ὅμος, Skt. sama-).
PGmc *suma- "someone" is a thematic derivative from the zero grade of this root, *smH-o-, also with cognates e.g. Gk. ἁμο- "any".
Source: Kroonen, Proto-Germanic Dictionary.
answered 1 hour ago
TKR
6,7211536
add a comment |
They are indeed both from the same PIE root, which however is reconstructed with a laryngeal, *semH-.
PGmc *sama- "same" is a thematic derivative from the o-grade of this root, *somH-o-, found in many other IE languages (Gk. ὅμος, Skt. sama-).
PGmc *suma- "someone" is a thematic derivative from the zero grade of this root, *smH-o-, also with cognates e.g. Gk. ἁμο- "any".
Source: Kroonen, Proto-Germanic Dictionary.
answered 1 hour ago
TKR
6,7211536
They are indeed both from the same PIE root, which however is reconstructed with a laryngeal, *semH-.
PGmc *sama- "same" is a thematic derivative from the o-grade of this root, *somH-o-, found in many other IE languages (Gk. ὅμος, Skt. sama-).
PGmc *suma- "someone" is a thematic derivative from the zero grade of this root, *smH-o-, also with cognates e.g. Gk. ἁμο- "any".
Source: Kroonen, Proto-Germanic Dictionary.
answered 1 hour ago
TKR
6,7211536
edited 1 hour ago
answered 1 hour ago
TKR
6,7211536
answered 1 hour ago
TKR
6,7211536
answered 1 hour ago
TKR
6,7211536
6,7211536
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add a comment |
@Draconis
Should have thought to make an account - and yes, reflexes would have been good practice, thank you.
Yes, I am thinking of *sumaz, the reflexes would be same and some in ModEnglish; OEnglish same/sama, sum; ON samr, sumr (the former is freq in compunds); possibly Sanskrit samá, samā-; etc.
answered 1 hour ago
takeru
1
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@Draconis
Should have thought to make an account - and yes, reflexes would have been good practice, thank you.
Yes, I am thinking of *sumaz, the reflexes would be same and some in ModEnglish; OEnglish same/sama, sum; ON samr, sumr (the former is freq in compunds); possibly Sanskrit samá, samā-; etc.
answered 1 hour ago
takeru
1
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@Draconis
Should have thought to make an account - and yes, reflexes would have been good practice, thank you.
Yes, I am thinking of *sumaz, the reflexes would be same and some in ModEnglish; OEnglish same/sama, sum; ON samr, sumr (the former is freq in compunds); possibly Sanskrit samá, samā-; etc.
answered 1 hour ago
takeru
1
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@Draconis
Should have thought to make an account - and yes, reflexes would have been good practice, thank you.
Yes, I am thinking of *sumaz, the reflexes would be same and some in ModEnglish; OEnglish same/sama, sum; ON samr, sumr (the former is freq in compunds); possibly Sanskrit samá, samā-; etc.
answered 1 hour ago
takeru
1
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answered 1 hour ago
takeru
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answered 1 hour ago
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1
Would you mind giving a derivative from each of your reconstructed PGmc roots? For example, I don't know a root *suma, but I do know *sumaz (> ME some); is that the root you're thinking of, or do you mean a separate one that I'm not familiar with?
– Draconis
2 hours ago