Why does Spain's government want to increase the minimum wage by such a large percentage at once?












31














According to the BBC, Spain wants to increase the minimum wage by more than 20%:




Spain's minimum wage will jump by 22% in 2019 - the largest annual
increase in more than 40 years.



It means millions of low-paid workers could see a pay rise from €736
($835; £665) to €900, effective from January.




An increase to the minimum wage is also a topic where I live (Romania) and I've often heard analysts arguing that large increases like this are rarely followed by a productivity increase of the same amount and that it might even make some investors leave the country.



Why would the government increase the minimum wage by such a large percentage in one go rather than by a smaller percentage more often (e.g. yearly)? Theoretically, such a strategy should minimize the risks.










share|improve this question




















  • 13




    There's rioting in France over (issues including) the minimum wage there, and Spain has a lower minimum than France. Maybe they don't want rioting?
    – Caleth
    yesterday






  • 4




    @Caleth - lol. Probably because the govt just noticed someone ordering 500,000 hi-viz jackets
    – Valorum
    yesterday






  • 4




    "are rarely doubled by a productivity increase" Did that ever happen? I don't see how I could suddenly be more productive. Even if you were slacking before, why would you change that as you still got the raise. Is that part relevant for the question or can it be removed?
    – Chris
    yesterday








  • 3




    Isn't the point that the wage increases are maintaining the same reward for the same productivity? Inflation has the direct effect of reducing equivalent pay for the same work over time - increasing minimum wage is to ensure we aren't still paid only a dollar for a day's work, as could be justified a century ago.
    – Nij
    yesterday






  • 2




    @Chris Increasing wages means workers can spend more money. The vendors that they spend their money with receive the productivity increase. (This is why Universal Basic Income proposals aren't completely insane -- the money gets spent.)
    – Russell Borogove
    20 hours ago


















31














According to the BBC, Spain wants to increase the minimum wage by more than 20%:




Spain's minimum wage will jump by 22% in 2019 - the largest annual
increase in more than 40 years.



It means millions of low-paid workers could see a pay rise from €736
($835; £665) to €900, effective from January.




An increase to the minimum wage is also a topic where I live (Romania) and I've often heard analysts arguing that large increases like this are rarely followed by a productivity increase of the same amount and that it might even make some investors leave the country.



Why would the government increase the minimum wage by such a large percentage in one go rather than by a smaller percentage more often (e.g. yearly)? Theoretically, such a strategy should minimize the risks.










share|improve this question




















  • 13




    There's rioting in France over (issues including) the minimum wage there, and Spain has a lower minimum than France. Maybe they don't want rioting?
    – Caleth
    yesterday






  • 4




    @Caleth - lol. Probably because the govt just noticed someone ordering 500,000 hi-viz jackets
    – Valorum
    yesterday






  • 4




    "are rarely doubled by a productivity increase" Did that ever happen? I don't see how I could suddenly be more productive. Even if you were slacking before, why would you change that as you still got the raise. Is that part relevant for the question or can it be removed?
    – Chris
    yesterday








  • 3




    Isn't the point that the wage increases are maintaining the same reward for the same productivity? Inflation has the direct effect of reducing equivalent pay for the same work over time - increasing minimum wage is to ensure we aren't still paid only a dollar for a day's work, as could be justified a century ago.
    – Nij
    yesterday






  • 2




    @Chris Increasing wages means workers can spend more money. The vendors that they spend their money with receive the productivity increase. (This is why Universal Basic Income proposals aren't completely insane -- the money gets spent.)
    – Russell Borogove
    20 hours ago
















31












31








31


3





According to the BBC, Spain wants to increase the minimum wage by more than 20%:




Spain's minimum wage will jump by 22% in 2019 - the largest annual
increase in more than 40 years.



It means millions of low-paid workers could see a pay rise from €736
($835; £665) to €900, effective from January.




An increase to the minimum wage is also a topic where I live (Romania) and I've often heard analysts arguing that large increases like this are rarely followed by a productivity increase of the same amount and that it might even make some investors leave the country.



Why would the government increase the minimum wage by such a large percentage in one go rather than by a smaller percentage more often (e.g. yearly)? Theoretically, such a strategy should minimize the risks.










share|improve this question















According to the BBC, Spain wants to increase the minimum wage by more than 20%:




Spain's minimum wage will jump by 22% in 2019 - the largest annual
increase in more than 40 years.



It means millions of low-paid workers could see a pay rise from €736
($835; £665) to €900, effective from January.




An increase to the minimum wage is also a topic where I live (Romania) and I've often heard analysts arguing that large increases like this are rarely followed by a productivity increase of the same amount and that it might even make some investors leave the country.



Why would the government increase the minimum wage by such a large percentage in one go rather than by a smaller percentage more often (e.g. yearly)? Theoretically, such a strategy should minimize the risks.







economy spain minimum-wage






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 47 mins ago

























asked yesterday









Alexei

15k1684161




15k1684161








  • 13




    There's rioting in France over (issues including) the minimum wage there, and Spain has a lower minimum than France. Maybe they don't want rioting?
    – Caleth
    yesterday






  • 4




    @Caleth - lol. Probably because the govt just noticed someone ordering 500,000 hi-viz jackets
    – Valorum
    yesterday






  • 4




    "are rarely doubled by a productivity increase" Did that ever happen? I don't see how I could suddenly be more productive. Even if you were slacking before, why would you change that as you still got the raise. Is that part relevant for the question or can it be removed?
    – Chris
    yesterday








  • 3




    Isn't the point that the wage increases are maintaining the same reward for the same productivity? Inflation has the direct effect of reducing equivalent pay for the same work over time - increasing minimum wage is to ensure we aren't still paid only a dollar for a day's work, as could be justified a century ago.
    – Nij
    yesterday






  • 2




    @Chris Increasing wages means workers can spend more money. The vendors that they spend their money with receive the productivity increase. (This is why Universal Basic Income proposals aren't completely insane -- the money gets spent.)
    – Russell Borogove
    20 hours ago
















  • 13




    There's rioting in France over (issues including) the minimum wage there, and Spain has a lower minimum than France. Maybe they don't want rioting?
    – Caleth
    yesterday






  • 4




    @Caleth - lol. Probably because the govt just noticed someone ordering 500,000 hi-viz jackets
    – Valorum
    yesterday






  • 4




    "are rarely doubled by a productivity increase" Did that ever happen? I don't see how I could suddenly be more productive. Even if you were slacking before, why would you change that as you still got the raise. Is that part relevant for the question or can it be removed?
    – Chris
    yesterday








  • 3




    Isn't the point that the wage increases are maintaining the same reward for the same productivity? Inflation has the direct effect of reducing equivalent pay for the same work over time - increasing minimum wage is to ensure we aren't still paid only a dollar for a day's work, as could be justified a century ago.
    – Nij
    yesterday






  • 2




    @Chris Increasing wages means workers can spend more money. The vendors that they spend their money with receive the productivity increase. (This is why Universal Basic Income proposals aren't completely insane -- the money gets spent.)
    – Russell Borogove
    20 hours ago










13




13




There's rioting in France over (issues including) the minimum wage there, and Spain has a lower minimum than France. Maybe they don't want rioting?
– Caleth
yesterday




There's rioting in France over (issues including) the minimum wage there, and Spain has a lower minimum than France. Maybe they don't want rioting?
– Caleth
yesterday




4




4




@Caleth - lol. Probably because the govt just noticed someone ordering 500,000 hi-viz jackets
– Valorum
yesterday




@Caleth - lol. Probably because the govt just noticed someone ordering 500,000 hi-viz jackets
– Valorum
yesterday




4




4




"are rarely doubled by a productivity increase" Did that ever happen? I don't see how I could suddenly be more productive. Even if you were slacking before, why would you change that as you still got the raise. Is that part relevant for the question or can it be removed?
– Chris
yesterday






"are rarely doubled by a productivity increase" Did that ever happen? I don't see how I could suddenly be more productive. Even if you were slacking before, why would you change that as you still got the raise. Is that part relevant for the question or can it be removed?
– Chris
yesterday






3




3




Isn't the point that the wage increases are maintaining the same reward for the same productivity? Inflation has the direct effect of reducing equivalent pay for the same work over time - increasing minimum wage is to ensure we aren't still paid only a dollar for a day's work, as could be justified a century ago.
– Nij
yesterday




Isn't the point that the wage increases are maintaining the same reward for the same productivity? Inflation has the direct effect of reducing equivalent pay for the same work over time - increasing minimum wage is to ensure we aren't still paid only a dollar for a day's work, as could be justified a century ago.
– Nij
yesterday




2




2




@Chris Increasing wages means workers can spend more money. The vendors that they spend their money with receive the productivity increase. (This is why Universal Basic Income proposals aren't completely insane -- the money gets spent.)
– Russell Borogove
20 hours ago






@Chris Increasing wages means workers can spend more money. The vendors that they spend their money with receive the productivity increase. (This is why Universal Basic Income proposals aren't completely insane -- the money gets spent.)
– Russell Borogove
20 hours ago












5 Answers
5






active

oldest

votes


















57














You're looking at the policy economically rather than politically.



Spain has to have a general election by July 2020. The government are contemplating having it earlier, possibly in May 2019 (to coincide with regional elections).



So announcing a flagship policy of the "look what we're doing for our people" variety, a few months before an election, keeps it in people's minds. Also, it won't have had an opportunity to have negative consequences prior to the election, so there's only upside at this point.



Obviously, this wouldn't work as well, politically, if you announced a much smaller increase, even if you plan to give further increases in subsequent years. The Euro in the pocket is worth a lot more than promises.



It could have economic harm subsequently. However, given there would be 4-5 more years before the next election, the minimum wage rise will be old news and a downturn can be blamed on other things.






share|improve this answer

















  • 15




    TL:DR: buying votes?
    – user4012
    23 hours ago






  • 16




    @user4012 More specifically, buying votes with other people's money.
    – reirab
    17 hours ago






  • 5




    This answer fails to consider that raising the economic wage may make economic sense. The wage share in many countries has been going down for years if not decades, and a substantial increase in wages across the board is one way to bring it back up, as a higher minimum wage may also benefit low-paid workers not on minimum wage. It also encourages companies to increase productivity. It's the old labour vs. capital struggle in which labour has lost out in recent decades. See also Trilarions answer.
    – gerrit
    9 hours ago








  • 2




    @gerrit The question wasn't about the merits of a minimum wage. The question was: why such a large (22%) increase in Spain and why now. I'm offering an alternative analysis to the economic one. There are others. For example, a number of news outlets are emphasising that it will be formally passed in Barcelona so linking it to the Catalonia situation. I happen to not think that that fits the facts but that's just my opinion.
    – Alex
    8 hours ago



















11














There is also a possibility that current minimum wage doesn't reflect actual wages paid to the people.



For example, in my country, due to poor law enforcement abilities to pursue these types of offences, it was very common practice in many sectors for employers to declare workers' pay as being only minimum wage, but actually pay them a higher wage. The difference between the reported wage and actual wage was paid in cash without paying taxes on it. It is still the situation in some sectors, but the situation has improved quite dramatically over the last decade.



Bringing minimum wage closer to actual minimal pay employees receive eliminates the opportunity to evade taxation. It is much easier to prosecute for using employees that are paid completely under the table, than to prove partial cash transactions.






share|improve this answer























  • @lazarusL do you have data on the actual wages in Spain that include untaxed cash earnings? Or do you mean to say that currently many people officially receive less than current minimum wage? That would be completely illegal.
    – Gnudiff
    yesterday








  • 2




    I completely misread your point. I had a previous association with cash payments being lower than minimum wages for completely under-the-table workers that weren't on the books at all. Deleting my previous comment. +1
    – lazarusL
    yesterday








  • 2




    I also had to read it multiple times to get your point. Maybe you should make it more explicit. I understood now, you're saying that the increase won't affect the pay out to the employee, but only reduce tax fraud?
    – Chris
    yesterday










  • Which country was that?
    – user4012
    23 hours ago






  • 1




    @user4012 I would think it was common in most Eastern Europe countries immediately after the fall of the USSR, but probably more so in those which were actually part of the USSR, prior to its collapse. Real taxation practices was something that had to be learned, as I do not think the USSR had any tax fraud. The state was practically the only employer, and private enterprise was generally forbidden. Those who engaged in (private enterprise), were primarily not prosecuted for not paying taxes, but for doing it at all.
    – Gnudiff
    22 hours ago





















6















I often heard analysts arguing that large increases like this are rarely followed by a productivity increase of the same amount and that it might even make some investors leave the country.




This sounds very vague. Many economic policies (higher taxes, lower spending, more debt, ...) have the potential to make some investors leave the country and there are always some analysts predicting imminent doom as consequence of almost any proposed policy.



When Germany introduced a minimum wage in 2015, quite a few prominent economics' scientists predicted the loss of in the order of hundreds of thousands of jobs. They erred and the unemployment continued to fall and the number of jobs continued to rise.



One positive effect of a higher minimum wage is that almost all of it is spent immediately and returned to the economy. So if indeed not too many people lose jobs through it, then there is also a chance of additional economical growth. Additionally, there is a long going international trend of a declining wage share. An increased minimum wage could counteract the decline in the wage share and reduce inequality. A higher minimum wage is not only a risk but also a chance.




I wonder why having such a large increase at once and not increasing by a smaller percentage often (e.g. yearly). Theoretically, such a strategy should minimize the risks.




It would minimize the risk, but it would also minimize the chances. And it just may be a too small step anyway to be effective.



Let's just assume for a moment that there is an optimal minimal wage, which might be defined as the minimal wage with the highest benefits (more income to lowly paid employees) at the lowest costs (less income to those not having jobs anymore).



Now the question is how far the current minimal wage is away from that optimal minimal wage. If the difference is large, then you actually want to make a large jump. 736€ per month doesn't sound like it's overly large, even 900€ per month doesn't sound like it's overly large, even more may be imaginable. For comparison, the minimum wage per hour in Germany is currently at 8.8€ which means something like (160 hours per month x 8.8€ per hour = 1408€ per month (before deductions), similar to the minimum wage in France) which is way above the numbers you have given for Spain.



I agree that once you are close to the optimal minimum wage you probably want to adjust the minimum wage in smaller steps.



How will we know if the rather large jump now was right or wrong? The time evolution of the unemployment/employment rate as well as the growth/shrinking of GDP will probably give a hint.



The current economic situation of Spain is not too bad. GDP is growing continuously since 2014 and unemployment is falling. However, unemployment is still quite high. A strong increase in the minimum wage might indeed be too risky. But that's far from sure. I think that the answer from Alex framing the strong increase as a pure election present is not proven sufficiently. Time will tell and it might be that the strong increase now will actually be beneficial for the Spanish economy.






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  • "One positive effect of a higher minimum wage is that almost all of it is spent immediately and returned to the economy". It might be worth out pointing that this is a return to the local or at least national economy. Specifically, people on low incomes (such as minimum wage) spend a larger fraction of their income domestically. They don't go on long vacations to far-away countries, for instance. They buy second-hand cars, not new imports.
    – MSalters
    4 hours ago



















5














As Alex says, the purpose of the increase might be due to elections being close, although it being approved is unlikely given the support this measure has in the Parliament is not enough.



In order to understand if the minimum wage should really be raised, knowing that a more or less common apartment rent cost might be around 600€ in a non-centric area of the main cities. This makes that even two people living together with both earning the minimum wage, can be very short of money.



Still, having lived in Spain for whole my life and having known people in these conditions, controlling that contracts are respected can be even more useful. It is not uncommon that low-end workers, poor people or immigrants are contracted part time but actually are working full time. Extra hours are also usually not paid apart from some specific areas (some industries and hotels or restaurants). IT companies for example almost never pay extra hours, being very common and numerous amongst all of them.



P.S.: My English is very rusty so there might be many grammatical mistakes.






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New contributor




randomname39 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.


















  • Re: respecting working hours, a 2015 change in the Estatuto de los Trabajadores required business to provide a log for flex time workers and extraordinary hours, and some sentences extended that to all workers for a time, but finally the Tribunal Supremo did revoke that interpretation. After that, recently the Parliament did change the law to explicitly require almost all employers to register the work hours (lin in Spanish)...
    – SJuan76
    6 hours ago










  • ... of course, it is yet to be seen how effective this measure is, as it is often difficult to protect people from laboral abuse if the victims cooperate with their employer out of fear of losing their jobs.
    – SJuan76
    6 hours ago



















3















"I often heard analysts arguing that large increases like this are
rarely followed by a productivity increase"




Is that a problem? Productivity has increased over the years, but salary hasn't increased by the same magnitude. So increasing the minimum wage is one way to redistribute the wealth.



Numbers for US, but similar numbers are found in most countries:



Change 1973–2017:
Productivity +77.0%
Hourly pay +12.4%
Productivity has grown 6.2x more than pay


https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/






share|improve this answer





















  • The problem with this is - productivity increases generally comes from automation, which requires more skilled workers. which get more than minimum pay anyway. The productivity of typical low wage jobs (shoveling sand, cleaning, delivering stuff) tends to increase a lot less over time.
    – Guntram Blohm
    2 hours ago











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5 Answers
5






active

oldest

votes








5 Answers
5






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









57














You're looking at the policy economically rather than politically.



Spain has to have a general election by July 2020. The government are contemplating having it earlier, possibly in May 2019 (to coincide with regional elections).



So announcing a flagship policy of the "look what we're doing for our people" variety, a few months before an election, keeps it in people's minds. Also, it won't have had an opportunity to have negative consequences prior to the election, so there's only upside at this point.



Obviously, this wouldn't work as well, politically, if you announced a much smaller increase, even if you plan to give further increases in subsequent years. The Euro in the pocket is worth a lot more than promises.



It could have economic harm subsequently. However, given there would be 4-5 more years before the next election, the minimum wage rise will be old news and a downturn can be blamed on other things.






share|improve this answer

















  • 15




    TL:DR: buying votes?
    – user4012
    23 hours ago






  • 16




    @user4012 More specifically, buying votes with other people's money.
    – reirab
    17 hours ago






  • 5




    This answer fails to consider that raising the economic wage may make economic sense. The wage share in many countries has been going down for years if not decades, and a substantial increase in wages across the board is one way to bring it back up, as a higher minimum wage may also benefit low-paid workers not on minimum wage. It also encourages companies to increase productivity. It's the old labour vs. capital struggle in which labour has lost out in recent decades. See also Trilarions answer.
    – gerrit
    9 hours ago








  • 2




    @gerrit The question wasn't about the merits of a minimum wage. The question was: why such a large (22%) increase in Spain and why now. I'm offering an alternative analysis to the economic one. There are others. For example, a number of news outlets are emphasising that it will be formally passed in Barcelona so linking it to the Catalonia situation. I happen to not think that that fits the facts but that's just my opinion.
    – Alex
    8 hours ago
















57














You're looking at the policy economically rather than politically.



Spain has to have a general election by July 2020. The government are contemplating having it earlier, possibly in May 2019 (to coincide with regional elections).



So announcing a flagship policy of the "look what we're doing for our people" variety, a few months before an election, keeps it in people's minds. Also, it won't have had an opportunity to have negative consequences prior to the election, so there's only upside at this point.



Obviously, this wouldn't work as well, politically, if you announced a much smaller increase, even if you plan to give further increases in subsequent years. The Euro in the pocket is worth a lot more than promises.



It could have economic harm subsequently. However, given there would be 4-5 more years before the next election, the minimum wage rise will be old news and a downturn can be blamed on other things.






share|improve this answer

















  • 15




    TL:DR: buying votes?
    – user4012
    23 hours ago






  • 16




    @user4012 More specifically, buying votes with other people's money.
    – reirab
    17 hours ago






  • 5




    This answer fails to consider that raising the economic wage may make economic sense. The wage share in many countries has been going down for years if not decades, and a substantial increase in wages across the board is one way to bring it back up, as a higher minimum wage may also benefit low-paid workers not on minimum wage. It also encourages companies to increase productivity. It's the old labour vs. capital struggle in which labour has lost out in recent decades. See also Trilarions answer.
    – gerrit
    9 hours ago








  • 2




    @gerrit The question wasn't about the merits of a minimum wage. The question was: why such a large (22%) increase in Spain and why now. I'm offering an alternative analysis to the economic one. There are others. For example, a number of news outlets are emphasising that it will be formally passed in Barcelona so linking it to the Catalonia situation. I happen to not think that that fits the facts but that's just my opinion.
    – Alex
    8 hours ago














57












57








57






You're looking at the policy economically rather than politically.



Spain has to have a general election by July 2020. The government are contemplating having it earlier, possibly in May 2019 (to coincide with regional elections).



So announcing a flagship policy of the "look what we're doing for our people" variety, a few months before an election, keeps it in people's minds. Also, it won't have had an opportunity to have negative consequences prior to the election, so there's only upside at this point.



Obviously, this wouldn't work as well, politically, if you announced a much smaller increase, even if you plan to give further increases in subsequent years. The Euro in the pocket is worth a lot more than promises.



It could have economic harm subsequently. However, given there would be 4-5 more years before the next election, the minimum wage rise will be old news and a downturn can be blamed on other things.






share|improve this answer












You're looking at the policy economically rather than politically.



Spain has to have a general election by July 2020. The government are contemplating having it earlier, possibly in May 2019 (to coincide with regional elections).



So announcing a flagship policy of the "look what we're doing for our people" variety, a few months before an election, keeps it in people's minds. Also, it won't have had an opportunity to have negative consequences prior to the election, so there's only upside at this point.



Obviously, this wouldn't work as well, politically, if you announced a much smaller increase, even if you plan to give further increases in subsequent years. The Euro in the pocket is worth a lot more than promises.



It could have economic harm subsequently. However, given there would be 4-5 more years before the next election, the minimum wage rise will be old news and a downturn can be blamed on other things.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered yesterday









Alex

3,414719




3,414719








  • 15




    TL:DR: buying votes?
    – user4012
    23 hours ago






  • 16




    @user4012 More specifically, buying votes with other people's money.
    – reirab
    17 hours ago






  • 5




    This answer fails to consider that raising the economic wage may make economic sense. The wage share in many countries has been going down for years if not decades, and a substantial increase in wages across the board is one way to bring it back up, as a higher minimum wage may also benefit low-paid workers not on minimum wage. It also encourages companies to increase productivity. It's the old labour vs. capital struggle in which labour has lost out in recent decades. See also Trilarions answer.
    – gerrit
    9 hours ago








  • 2




    @gerrit The question wasn't about the merits of a minimum wage. The question was: why such a large (22%) increase in Spain and why now. I'm offering an alternative analysis to the economic one. There are others. For example, a number of news outlets are emphasising that it will be formally passed in Barcelona so linking it to the Catalonia situation. I happen to not think that that fits the facts but that's just my opinion.
    – Alex
    8 hours ago














  • 15




    TL:DR: buying votes?
    – user4012
    23 hours ago






  • 16




    @user4012 More specifically, buying votes with other people's money.
    – reirab
    17 hours ago






  • 5




    This answer fails to consider that raising the economic wage may make economic sense. The wage share in many countries has been going down for years if not decades, and a substantial increase in wages across the board is one way to bring it back up, as a higher minimum wage may also benefit low-paid workers not on minimum wage. It also encourages companies to increase productivity. It's the old labour vs. capital struggle in which labour has lost out in recent decades. See also Trilarions answer.
    – gerrit
    9 hours ago








  • 2




    @gerrit The question wasn't about the merits of a minimum wage. The question was: why such a large (22%) increase in Spain and why now. I'm offering an alternative analysis to the economic one. There are others. For example, a number of news outlets are emphasising that it will be formally passed in Barcelona so linking it to the Catalonia situation. I happen to not think that that fits the facts but that's just my opinion.
    – Alex
    8 hours ago








15




15




TL:DR: buying votes?
– user4012
23 hours ago




TL:DR: buying votes?
– user4012
23 hours ago




16




16




@user4012 More specifically, buying votes with other people's money.
– reirab
17 hours ago




@user4012 More specifically, buying votes with other people's money.
– reirab
17 hours ago




5




5




This answer fails to consider that raising the economic wage may make economic sense. The wage share in many countries has been going down for years if not decades, and a substantial increase in wages across the board is one way to bring it back up, as a higher minimum wage may also benefit low-paid workers not on minimum wage. It also encourages companies to increase productivity. It's the old labour vs. capital struggle in which labour has lost out in recent decades. See also Trilarions answer.
– gerrit
9 hours ago






This answer fails to consider that raising the economic wage may make economic sense. The wage share in many countries has been going down for years if not decades, and a substantial increase in wages across the board is one way to bring it back up, as a higher minimum wage may also benefit low-paid workers not on minimum wage. It also encourages companies to increase productivity. It's the old labour vs. capital struggle in which labour has lost out in recent decades. See also Trilarions answer.
– gerrit
9 hours ago






2




2




@gerrit The question wasn't about the merits of a minimum wage. The question was: why such a large (22%) increase in Spain and why now. I'm offering an alternative analysis to the economic one. There are others. For example, a number of news outlets are emphasising that it will be formally passed in Barcelona so linking it to the Catalonia situation. I happen to not think that that fits the facts but that's just my opinion.
– Alex
8 hours ago




@gerrit The question wasn't about the merits of a minimum wage. The question was: why such a large (22%) increase in Spain and why now. I'm offering an alternative analysis to the economic one. There are others. For example, a number of news outlets are emphasising that it will be formally passed in Barcelona so linking it to the Catalonia situation. I happen to not think that that fits the facts but that's just my opinion.
– Alex
8 hours ago











11














There is also a possibility that current minimum wage doesn't reflect actual wages paid to the people.



For example, in my country, due to poor law enforcement abilities to pursue these types of offences, it was very common practice in many sectors for employers to declare workers' pay as being only minimum wage, but actually pay them a higher wage. The difference between the reported wage and actual wage was paid in cash without paying taxes on it. It is still the situation in some sectors, but the situation has improved quite dramatically over the last decade.



Bringing minimum wage closer to actual minimal pay employees receive eliminates the opportunity to evade taxation. It is much easier to prosecute for using employees that are paid completely under the table, than to prove partial cash transactions.






share|improve this answer























  • @lazarusL do you have data on the actual wages in Spain that include untaxed cash earnings? Or do you mean to say that currently many people officially receive less than current minimum wage? That would be completely illegal.
    – Gnudiff
    yesterday








  • 2




    I completely misread your point. I had a previous association with cash payments being lower than minimum wages for completely under-the-table workers that weren't on the books at all. Deleting my previous comment. +1
    – lazarusL
    yesterday








  • 2




    I also had to read it multiple times to get your point. Maybe you should make it more explicit. I understood now, you're saying that the increase won't affect the pay out to the employee, but only reduce tax fraud?
    – Chris
    yesterday










  • Which country was that?
    – user4012
    23 hours ago






  • 1




    @user4012 I would think it was common in most Eastern Europe countries immediately after the fall of the USSR, but probably more so in those which were actually part of the USSR, prior to its collapse. Real taxation practices was something that had to be learned, as I do not think the USSR had any tax fraud. The state was practically the only employer, and private enterprise was generally forbidden. Those who engaged in (private enterprise), were primarily not prosecuted for not paying taxes, but for doing it at all.
    – Gnudiff
    22 hours ago


















11














There is also a possibility that current minimum wage doesn't reflect actual wages paid to the people.



For example, in my country, due to poor law enforcement abilities to pursue these types of offences, it was very common practice in many sectors for employers to declare workers' pay as being only minimum wage, but actually pay them a higher wage. The difference between the reported wage and actual wage was paid in cash without paying taxes on it. It is still the situation in some sectors, but the situation has improved quite dramatically over the last decade.



Bringing minimum wage closer to actual minimal pay employees receive eliminates the opportunity to evade taxation. It is much easier to prosecute for using employees that are paid completely under the table, than to prove partial cash transactions.






share|improve this answer























  • @lazarusL do you have data on the actual wages in Spain that include untaxed cash earnings? Or do you mean to say that currently many people officially receive less than current minimum wage? That would be completely illegal.
    – Gnudiff
    yesterday








  • 2




    I completely misread your point. I had a previous association with cash payments being lower than minimum wages for completely under-the-table workers that weren't on the books at all. Deleting my previous comment. +1
    – lazarusL
    yesterday








  • 2




    I also had to read it multiple times to get your point. Maybe you should make it more explicit. I understood now, you're saying that the increase won't affect the pay out to the employee, but only reduce tax fraud?
    – Chris
    yesterday










  • Which country was that?
    – user4012
    23 hours ago






  • 1




    @user4012 I would think it was common in most Eastern Europe countries immediately after the fall of the USSR, but probably more so in those which were actually part of the USSR, prior to its collapse. Real taxation practices was something that had to be learned, as I do not think the USSR had any tax fraud. The state was practically the only employer, and private enterprise was generally forbidden. Those who engaged in (private enterprise), were primarily not prosecuted for not paying taxes, but for doing it at all.
    – Gnudiff
    22 hours ago
















11












11








11






There is also a possibility that current minimum wage doesn't reflect actual wages paid to the people.



For example, in my country, due to poor law enforcement abilities to pursue these types of offences, it was very common practice in many sectors for employers to declare workers' pay as being only minimum wage, but actually pay them a higher wage. The difference between the reported wage and actual wage was paid in cash without paying taxes on it. It is still the situation in some sectors, but the situation has improved quite dramatically over the last decade.



Bringing minimum wage closer to actual minimal pay employees receive eliminates the opportunity to evade taxation. It is much easier to prosecute for using employees that are paid completely under the table, than to prove partial cash transactions.






share|improve this answer














There is also a possibility that current minimum wage doesn't reflect actual wages paid to the people.



For example, in my country, due to poor law enforcement abilities to pursue these types of offences, it was very common practice in many sectors for employers to declare workers' pay as being only minimum wage, but actually pay them a higher wage. The difference between the reported wage and actual wage was paid in cash without paying taxes on it. It is still the situation in some sectors, but the situation has improved quite dramatically over the last decade.



Bringing minimum wage closer to actual minimal pay employees receive eliminates the opportunity to evade taxation. It is much easier to prosecute for using employees that are paid completely under the table, than to prove partial cash transactions.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 22 hours ago

























answered yesterday









Gnudiff

61429




61429












  • @lazarusL do you have data on the actual wages in Spain that include untaxed cash earnings? Or do you mean to say that currently many people officially receive less than current minimum wage? That would be completely illegal.
    – Gnudiff
    yesterday








  • 2




    I completely misread your point. I had a previous association with cash payments being lower than minimum wages for completely under-the-table workers that weren't on the books at all. Deleting my previous comment. +1
    – lazarusL
    yesterday








  • 2




    I also had to read it multiple times to get your point. Maybe you should make it more explicit. I understood now, you're saying that the increase won't affect the pay out to the employee, but only reduce tax fraud?
    – Chris
    yesterday










  • Which country was that?
    – user4012
    23 hours ago






  • 1




    @user4012 I would think it was common in most Eastern Europe countries immediately after the fall of the USSR, but probably more so in those which were actually part of the USSR, prior to its collapse. Real taxation practices was something that had to be learned, as I do not think the USSR had any tax fraud. The state was practically the only employer, and private enterprise was generally forbidden. Those who engaged in (private enterprise), were primarily not prosecuted for not paying taxes, but for doing it at all.
    – Gnudiff
    22 hours ago




















  • @lazarusL do you have data on the actual wages in Spain that include untaxed cash earnings? Or do you mean to say that currently many people officially receive less than current minimum wage? That would be completely illegal.
    – Gnudiff
    yesterday








  • 2




    I completely misread your point. I had a previous association with cash payments being lower than minimum wages for completely under-the-table workers that weren't on the books at all. Deleting my previous comment. +1
    – lazarusL
    yesterday








  • 2




    I also had to read it multiple times to get your point. Maybe you should make it more explicit. I understood now, you're saying that the increase won't affect the pay out to the employee, but only reduce tax fraud?
    – Chris
    yesterday










  • Which country was that?
    – user4012
    23 hours ago






  • 1




    @user4012 I would think it was common in most Eastern Europe countries immediately after the fall of the USSR, but probably more so in those which were actually part of the USSR, prior to its collapse. Real taxation practices was something that had to be learned, as I do not think the USSR had any tax fraud. The state was practically the only employer, and private enterprise was generally forbidden. Those who engaged in (private enterprise), were primarily not prosecuted for not paying taxes, but for doing it at all.
    – Gnudiff
    22 hours ago


















@lazarusL do you have data on the actual wages in Spain that include untaxed cash earnings? Or do you mean to say that currently many people officially receive less than current minimum wage? That would be completely illegal.
– Gnudiff
yesterday






@lazarusL do you have data on the actual wages in Spain that include untaxed cash earnings? Or do you mean to say that currently many people officially receive less than current minimum wage? That would be completely illegal.
– Gnudiff
yesterday






2




2




I completely misread your point. I had a previous association with cash payments being lower than minimum wages for completely under-the-table workers that weren't on the books at all. Deleting my previous comment. +1
– lazarusL
yesterday






I completely misread your point. I had a previous association with cash payments being lower than minimum wages for completely under-the-table workers that weren't on the books at all. Deleting my previous comment. +1
– lazarusL
yesterday






2




2




I also had to read it multiple times to get your point. Maybe you should make it more explicit. I understood now, you're saying that the increase won't affect the pay out to the employee, but only reduce tax fraud?
– Chris
yesterday




I also had to read it multiple times to get your point. Maybe you should make it more explicit. I understood now, you're saying that the increase won't affect the pay out to the employee, but only reduce tax fraud?
– Chris
yesterday












Which country was that?
– user4012
23 hours ago




Which country was that?
– user4012
23 hours ago




1




1




@user4012 I would think it was common in most Eastern Europe countries immediately after the fall of the USSR, but probably more so in those which were actually part of the USSR, prior to its collapse. Real taxation practices was something that had to be learned, as I do not think the USSR had any tax fraud. The state was practically the only employer, and private enterprise was generally forbidden. Those who engaged in (private enterprise), were primarily not prosecuted for not paying taxes, but for doing it at all.
– Gnudiff
22 hours ago






@user4012 I would think it was common in most Eastern Europe countries immediately after the fall of the USSR, but probably more so in those which were actually part of the USSR, prior to its collapse. Real taxation practices was something that had to be learned, as I do not think the USSR had any tax fraud. The state was practically the only employer, and private enterprise was generally forbidden. Those who engaged in (private enterprise), were primarily not prosecuted for not paying taxes, but for doing it at all.
– Gnudiff
22 hours ago













6















I often heard analysts arguing that large increases like this are rarely followed by a productivity increase of the same amount and that it might even make some investors leave the country.




This sounds very vague. Many economic policies (higher taxes, lower spending, more debt, ...) have the potential to make some investors leave the country and there are always some analysts predicting imminent doom as consequence of almost any proposed policy.



When Germany introduced a minimum wage in 2015, quite a few prominent economics' scientists predicted the loss of in the order of hundreds of thousands of jobs. They erred and the unemployment continued to fall and the number of jobs continued to rise.



One positive effect of a higher minimum wage is that almost all of it is spent immediately and returned to the economy. So if indeed not too many people lose jobs through it, then there is also a chance of additional economical growth. Additionally, there is a long going international trend of a declining wage share. An increased minimum wage could counteract the decline in the wage share and reduce inequality. A higher minimum wage is not only a risk but also a chance.




I wonder why having such a large increase at once and not increasing by a smaller percentage often (e.g. yearly). Theoretically, such a strategy should minimize the risks.




It would minimize the risk, but it would also minimize the chances. And it just may be a too small step anyway to be effective.



Let's just assume for a moment that there is an optimal minimal wage, which might be defined as the minimal wage with the highest benefits (more income to lowly paid employees) at the lowest costs (less income to those not having jobs anymore).



Now the question is how far the current minimal wage is away from that optimal minimal wage. If the difference is large, then you actually want to make a large jump. 736€ per month doesn't sound like it's overly large, even 900€ per month doesn't sound like it's overly large, even more may be imaginable. For comparison, the minimum wage per hour in Germany is currently at 8.8€ which means something like (160 hours per month x 8.8€ per hour = 1408€ per month (before deductions), similar to the minimum wage in France) which is way above the numbers you have given for Spain.



I agree that once you are close to the optimal minimum wage you probably want to adjust the minimum wage in smaller steps.



How will we know if the rather large jump now was right or wrong? The time evolution of the unemployment/employment rate as well as the growth/shrinking of GDP will probably give a hint.



The current economic situation of Spain is not too bad. GDP is growing continuously since 2014 and unemployment is falling. However, unemployment is still quite high. A strong increase in the minimum wage might indeed be too risky. But that's far from sure. I think that the answer from Alex framing the strong increase as a pure election present is not proven sufficiently. Time will tell and it might be that the strong increase now will actually be beneficial for the Spanish economy.






share|improve this answer























  • "One positive effect of a higher minimum wage is that almost all of it is spent immediately and returned to the economy". It might be worth out pointing that this is a return to the local or at least national economy. Specifically, people on low incomes (such as minimum wage) spend a larger fraction of their income domestically. They don't go on long vacations to far-away countries, for instance. They buy second-hand cars, not new imports.
    – MSalters
    4 hours ago
















6















I often heard analysts arguing that large increases like this are rarely followed by a productivity increase of the same amount and that it might even make some investors leave the country.




This sounds very vague. Many economic policies (higher taxes, lower spending, more debt, ...) have the potential to make some investors leave the country and there are always some analysts predicting imminent doom as consequence of almost any proposed policy.



When Germany introduced a minimum wage in 2015, quite a few prominent economics' scientists predicted the loss of in the order of hundreds of thousands of jobs. They erred and the unemployment continued to fall and the number of jobs continued to rise.



One positive effect of a higher minimum wage is that almost all of it is spent immediately and returned to the economy. So if indeed not too many people lose jobs through it, then there is also a chance of additional economical growth. Additionally, there is a long going international trend of a declining wage share. An increased minimum wage could counteract the decline in the wage share and reduce inequality. A higher minimum wage is not only a risk but also a chance.




I wonder why having such a large increase at once and not increasing by a smaller percentage often (e.g. yearly). Theoretically, such a strategy should minimize the risks.




It would minimize the risk, but it would also minimize the chances. And it just may be a too small step anyway to be effective.



Let's just assume for a moment that there is an optimal minimal wage, which might be defined as the minimal wage with the highest benefits (more income to lowly paid employees) at the lowest costs (less income to those not having jobs anymore).



Now the question is how far the current minimal wage is away from that optimal minimal wage. If the difference is large, then you actually want to make a large jump. 736€ per month doesn't sound like it's overly large, even 900€ per month doesn't sound like it's overly large, even more may be imaginable. For comparison, the minimum wage per hour in Germany is currently at 8.8€ which means something like (160 hours per month x 8.8€ per hour = 1408€ per month (before deductions), similar to the minimum wage in France) which is way above the numbers you have given for Spain.



I agree that once you are close to the optimal minimum wage you probably want to adjust the minimum wage in smaller steps.



How will we know if the rather large jump now was right or wrong? The time evolution of the unemployment/employment rate as well as the growth/shrinking of GDP will probably give a hint.



The current economic situation of Spain is not too bad. GDP is growing continuously since 2014 and unemployment is falling. However, unemployment is still quite high. A strong increase in the minimum wage might indeed be too risky. But that's far from sure. I think that the answer from Alex framing the strong increase as a pure election present is not proven sufficiently. Time will tell and it might be that the strong increase now will actually be beneficial for the Spanish economy.






share|improve this answer























  • "One positive effect of a higher minimum wage is that almost all of it is spent immediately and returned to the economy". It might be worth out pointing that this is a return to the local or at least national economy. Specifically, people on low incomes (such as minimum wage) spend a larger fraction of their income domestically. They don't go on long vacations to far-away countries, for instance. They buy second-hand cars, not new imports.
    – MSalters
    4 hours ago














6












6








6







I often heard analysts arguing that large increases like this are rarely followed by a productivity increase of the same amount and that it might even make some investors leave the country.




This sounds very vague. Many economic policies (higher taxes, lower spending, more debt, ...) have the potential to make some investors leave the country and there are always some analysts predicting imminent doom as consequence of almost any proposed policy.



When Germany introduced a minimum wage in 2015, quite a few prominent economics' scientists predicted the loss of in the order of hundreds of thousands of jobs. They erred and the unemployment continued to fall and the number of jobs continued to rise.



One positive effect of a higher minimum wage is that almost all of it is spent immediately and returned to the economy. So if indeed not too many people lose jobs through it, then there is also a chance of additional economical growth. Additionally, there is a long going international trend of a declining wage share. An increased minimum wage could counteract the decline in the wage share and reduce inequality. A higher minimum wage is not only a risk but also a chance.




I wonder why having such a large increase at once and not increasing by a smaller percentage often (e.g. yearly). Theoretically, such a strategy should minimize the risks.




It would minimize the risk, but it would also minimize the chances. And it just may be a too small step anyway to be effective.



Let's just assume for a moment that there is an optimal minimal wage, which might be defined as the minimal wage with the highest benefits (more income to lowly paid employees) at the lowest costs (less income to those not having jobs anymore).



Now the question is how far the current minimal wage is away from that optimal minimal wage. If the difference is large, then you actually want to make a large jump. 736€ per month doesn't sound like it's overly large, even 900€ per month doesn't sound like it's overly large, even more may be imaginable. For comparison, the minimum wage per hour in Germany is currently at 8.8€ which means something like (160 hours per month x 8.8€ per hour = 1408€ per month (before deductions), similar to the minimum wage in France) which is way above the numbers you have given for Spain.



I agree that once you are close to the optimal minimum wage you probably want to adjust the minimum wage in smaller steps.



How will we know if the rather large jump now was right or wrong? The time evolution of the unemployment/employment rate as well as the growth/shrinking of GDP will probably give a hint.



The current economic situation of Spain is not too bad. GDP is growing continuously since 2014 and unemployment is falling. However, unemployment is still quite high. A strong increase in the minimum wage might indeed be too risky. But that's far from sure. I think that the answer from Alex framing the strong increase as a pure election present is not proven sufficiently. Time will tell and it might be that the strong increase now will actually be beneficial for the Spanish economy.






share|improve this answer















I often heard analysts arguing that large increases like this are rarely followed by a productivity increase of the same amount and that it might even make some investors leave the country.




This sounds very vague. Many economic policies (higher taxes, lower spending, more debt, ...) have the potential to make some investors leave the country and there are always some analysts predicting imminent doom as consequence of almost any proposed policy.



When Germany introduced a minimum wage in 2015, quite a few prominent economics' scientists predicted the loss of in the order of hundreds of thousands of jobs. They erred and the unemployment continued to fall and the number of jobs continued to rise.



One positive effect of a higher minimum wage is that almost all of it is spent immediately and returned to the economy. So if indeed not too many people lose jobs through it, then there is also a chance of additional economical growth. Additionally, there is a long going international trend of a declining wage share. An increased minimum wage could counteract the decline in the wage share and reduce inequality. A higher minimum wage is not only a risk but also a chance.




I wonder why having such a large increase at once and not increasing by a smaller percentage often (e.g. yearly). Theoretically, such a strategy should minimize the risks.




It would minimize the risk, but it would also minimize the chances. And it just may be a too small step anyway to be effective.



Let's just assume for a moment that there is an optimal minimal wage, which might be defined as the minimal wage with the highest benefits (more income to lowly paid employees) at the lowest costs (less income to those not having jobs anymore).



Now the question is how far the current minimal wage is away from that optimal minimal wage. If the difference is large, then you actually want to make a large jump. 736€ per month doesn't sound like it's overly large, even 900€ per month doesn't sound like it's overly large, even more may be imaginable. For comparison, the minimum wage per hour in Germany is currently at 8.8€ which means something like (160 hours per month x 8.8€ per hour = 1408€ per month (before deductions), similar to the minimum wage in France) which is way above the numbers you have given for Spain.



I agree that once you are close to the optimal minimum wage you probably want to adjust the minimum wage in smaller steps.



How will we know if the rather large jump now was right or wrong? The time evolution of the unemployment/employment rate as well as the growth/shrinking of GDP will probably give a hint.



The current economic situation of Spain is not too bad. GDP is growing continuously since 2014 and unemployment is falling. However, unemployment is still quite high. A strong increase in the minimum wage might indeed be too risky. But that's far from sure. I think that the answer from Alex framing the strong increase as a pure election present is not proven sufficiently. Time will tell and it might be that the strong increase now will actually be beneficial for the Spanish economy.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 5 hours ago

























answered 9 hours ago









Trilarion

1,248523




1,248523












  • "One positive effect of a higher minimum wage is that almost all of it is spent immediately and returned to the economy". It might be worth out pointing that this is a return to the local or at least national economy. Specifically, people on low incomes (such as minimum wage) spend a larger fraction of their income domestically. They don't go on long vacations to far-away countries, for instance. They buy second-hand cars, not new imports.
    – MSalters
    4 hours ago


















  • "One positive effect of a higher minimum wage is that almost all of it is spent immediately and returned to the economy". It might be worth out pointing that this is a return to the local or at least national economy. Specifically, people on low incomes (such as minimum wage) spend a larger fraction of their income domestically. They don't go on long vacations to far-away countries, for instance. They buy second-hand cars, not new imports.
    – MSalters
    4 hours ago
















"One positive effect of a higher minimum wage is that almost all of it is spent immediately and returned to the economy". It might be worth out pointing that this is a return to the local or at least national economy. Specifically, people on low incomes (such as minimum wage) spend a larger fraction of their income domestically. They don't go on long vacations to far-away countries, for instance. They buy second-hand cars, not new imports.
– MSalters
4 hours ago




"One positive effect of a higher minimum wage is that almost all of it is spent immediately and returned to the economy". It might be worth out pointing that this is a return to the local or at least national economy. Specifically, people on low incomes (such as minimum wage) spend a larger fraction of their income domestically. They don't go on long vacations to far-away countries, for instance. They buy second-hand cars, not new imports.
– MSalters
4 hours ago











5














As Alex says, the purpose of the increase might be due to elections being close, although it being approved is unlikely given the support this measure has in the Parliament is not enough.



In order to understand if the minimum wage should really be raised, knowing that a more or less common apartment rent cost might be around 600€ in a non-centric area of the main cities. This makes that even two people living together with both earning the minimum wage, can be very short of money.



Still, having lived in Spain for whole my life and having known people in these conditions, controlling that contracts are respected can be even more useful. It is not uncommon that low-end workers, poor people or immigrants are contracted part time but actually are working full time. Extra hours are also usually not paid apart from some specific areas (some industries and hotels or restaurants). IT companies for example almost never pay extra hours, being very common and numerous amongst all of them.



P.S.: My English is very rusty so there might be many grammatical mistakes.






share|improve this answer








New contributor




randomname39 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.


















  • Re: respecting working hours, a 2015 change in the Estatuto de los Trabajadores required business to provide a log for flex time workers and extraordinary hours, and some sentences extended that to all workers for a time, but finally the Tribunal Supremo did revoke that interpretation. After that, recently the Parliament did change the law to explicitly require almost all employers to register the work hours (lin in Spanish)...
    – SJuan76
    6 hours ago










  • ... of course, it is yet to be seen how effective this measure is, as it is often difficult to protect people from laboral abuse if the victims cooperate with their employer out of fear of losing their jobs.
    – SJuan76
    6 hours ago
















5














As Alex says, the purpose of the increase might be due to elections being close, although it being approved is unlikely given the support this measure has in the Parliament is not enough.



In order to understand if the minimum wage should really be raised, knowing that a more or less common apartment rent cost might be around 600€ in a non-centric area of the main cities. This makes that even two people living together with both earning the minimum wage, can be very short of money.



Still, having lived in Spain for whole my life and having known people in these conditions, controlling that contracts are respected can be even more useful. It is not uncommon that low-end workers, poor people or immigrants are contracted part time but actually are working full time. Extra hours are also usually not paid apart from some specific areas (some industries and hotels or restaurants). IT companies for example almost never pay extra hours, being very common and numerous amongst all of them.



P.S.: My English is very rusty so there might be many grammatical mistakes.






share|improve this answer








New contributor




randomname39 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.


















  • Re: respecting working hours, a 2015 change in the Estatuto de los Trabajadores required business to provide a log for flex time workers and extraordinary hours, and some sentences extended that to all workers for a time, but finally the Tribunal Supremo did revoke that interpretation. After that, recently the Parliament did change the law to explicitly require almost all employers to register the work hours (lin in Spanish)...
    – SJuan76
    6 hours ago










  • ... of course, it is yet to be seen how effective this measure is, as it is often difficult to protect people from laboral abuse if the victims cooperate with their employer out of fear of losing their jobs.
    – SJuan76
    6 hours ago














5












5








5






As Alex says, the purpose of the increase might be due to elections being close, although it being approved is unlikely given the support this measure has in the Parliament is not enough.



In order to understand if the minimum wage should really be raised, knowing that a more or less common apartment rent cost might be around 600€ in a non-centric area of the main cities. This makes that even two people living together with both earning the minimum wage, can be very short of money.



Still, having lived in Spain for whole my life and having known people in these conditions, controlling that contracts are respected can be even more useful. It is not uncommon that low-end workers, poor people or immigrants are contracted part time but actually are working full time. Extra hours are also usually not paid apart from some specific areas (some industries and hotels or restaurants). IT companies for example almost never pay extra hours, being very common and numerous amongst all of them.



P.S.: My English is very rusty so there might be many grammatical mistakes.






share|improve this answer








New contributor




randomname39 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









As Alex says, the purpose of the increase might be due to elections being close, although it being approved is unlikely given the support this measure has in the Parliament is not enough.



In order to understand if the minimum wage should really be raised, knowing that a more or less common apartment rent cost might be around 600€ in a non-centric area of the main cities. This makes that even two people living together with both earning the minimum wage, can be very short of money.



Still, having lived in Spain for whole my life and having known people in these conditions, controlling that contracts are respected can be even more useful. It is not uncommon that low-end workers, poor people or immigrants are contracted part time but actually are working full time. Extra hours are also usually not paid apart from some specific areas (some industries and hotels or restaurants). IT companies for example almost never pay extra hours, being very common and numerous amongst all of them.



P.S.: My English is very rusty so there might be many grammatical mistakes.







share|improve this answer








New contributor




randomname39 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer






New contributor




randomname39 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









answered 11 hours ago









randomname39

511




511




New contributor




randomname39 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





randomname39 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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  • Re: respecting working hours, a 2015 change in the Estatuto de los Trabajadores required business to provide a log for flex time workers and extraordinary hours, and some sentences extended that to all workers for a time, but finally the Tribunal Supremo did revoke that interpretation. After that, recently the Parliament did change the law to explicitly require almost all employers to register the work hours (lin in Spanish)...
    – SJuan76
    6 hours ago










  • ... of course, it is yet to be seen how effective this measure is, as it is often difficult to protect people from laboral abuse if the victims cooperate with their employer out of fear of losing their jobs.
    – SJuan76
    6 hours ago


















  • Re: respecting working hours, a 2015 change in the Estatuto de los Trabajadores required business to provide a log for flex time workers and extraordinary hours, and some sentences extended that to all workers for a time, but finally the Tribunal Supremo did revoke that interpretation. After that, recently the Parliament did change the law to explicitly require almost all employers to register the work hours (lin in Spanish)...
    – SJuan76
    6 hours ago










  • ... of course, it is yet to be seen how effective this measure is, as it is often difficult to protect people from laboral abuse if the victims cooperate with their employer out of fear of losing their jobs.
    – SJuan76
    6 hours ago
















Re: respecting working hours, a 2015 change in the Estatuto de los Trabajadores required business to provide a log for flex time workers and extraordinary hours, and some sentences extended that to all workers for a time, but finally the Tribunal Supremo did revoke that interpretation. After that, recently the Parliament did change the law to explicitly require almost all employers to register the work hours (lin in Spanish)...
– SJuan76
6 hours ago




Re: respecting working hours, a 2015 change in the Estatuto de los Trabajadores required business to provide a log for flex time workers and extraordinary hours, and some sentences extended that to all workers for a time, but finally the Tribunal Supremo did revoke that interpretation. After that, recently the Parliament did change the law to explicitly require almost all employers to register the work hours (lin in Spanish)...
– SJuan76
6 hours ago












... of course, it is yet to be seen how effective this measure is, as it is often difficult to protect people from laboral abuse if the victims cooperate with their employer out of fear of losing their jobs.
– SJuan76
6 hours ago




... of course, it is yet to be seen how effective this measure is, as it is often difficult to protect people from laboral abuse if the victims cooperate with their employer out of fear of losing their jobs.
– SJuan76
6 hours ago











3















"I often heard analysts arguing that large increases like this are
rarely followed by a productivity increase"




Is that a problem? Productivity has increased over the years, but salary hasn't increased by the same magnitude. So increasing the minimum wage is one way to redistribute the wealth.



Numbers for US, but similar numbers are found in most countries:



Change 1973–2017:
Productivity +77.0%
Hourly pay +12.4%
Productivity has grown 6.2x more than pay


https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/






share|improve this answer





















  • The problem with this is - productivity increases generally comes from automation, which requires more skilled workers. which get more than minimum pay anyway. The productivity of typical low wage jobs (shoveling sand, cleaning, delivering stuff) tends to increase a lot less over time.
    – Guntram Blohm
    2 hours ago
















3















"I often heard analysts arguing that large increases like this are
rarely followed by a productivity increase"




Is that a problem? Productivity has increased over the years, but salary hasn't increased by the same magnitude. So increasing the minimum wage is one way to redistribute the wealth.



Numbers for US, but similar numbers are found in most countries:



Change 1973–2017:
Productivity +77.0%
Hourly pay +12.4%
Productivity has grown 6.2x more than pay


https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/






share|improve this answer





















  • The problem with this is - productivity increases generally comes from automation, which requires more skilled workers. which get more than minimum pay anyway. The productivity of typical low wage jobs (shoveling sand, cleaning, delivering stuff) tends to increase a lot less over time.
    – Guntram Blohm
    2 hours ago














3












3








3







"I often heard analysts arguing that large increases like this are
rarely followed by a productivity increase"




Is that a problem? Productivity has increased over the years, but salary hasn't increased by the same magnitude. So increasing the minimum wage is one way to redistribute the wealth.



Numbers for US, but similar numbers are found in most countries:



Change 1973–2017:
Productivity +77.0%
Hourly pay +12.4%
Productivity has grown 6.2x more than pay


https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/






share|improve this answer













"I often heard analysts arguing that large increases like this are
rarely followed by a productivity increase"




Is that a problem? Productivity has increased over the years, but salary hasn't increased by the same magnitude. So increasing the minimum wage is one way to redistribute the wealth.



Numbers for US, but similar numbers are found in most countries:



Change 1973–2017:
Productivity +77.0%
Hourly pay +12.4%
Productivity has grown 6.2x more than pay


https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 9 hours ago









Viktor Mellgren

1493




1493












  • The problem with this is - productivity increases generally comes from automation, which requires more skilled workers. which get more than minimum pay anyway. The productivity of typical low wage jobs (shoveling sand, cleaning, delivering stuff) tends to increase a lot less over time.
    – Guntram Blohm
    2 hours ago


















  • The problem with this is - productivity increases generally comes from automation, which requires more skilled workers. which get more than minimum pay anyway. The productivity of typical low wage jobs (shoveling sand, cleaning, delivering stuff) tends to increase a lot less over time.
    – Guntram Blohm
    2 hours ago
















The problem with this is - productivity increases generally comes from automation, which requires more skilled workers. which get more than minimum pay anyway. The productivity of typical low wage jobs (shoveling sand, cleaning, delivering stuff) tends to increase a lot less over time.
– Guntram Blohm
2 hours ago




The problem with this is - productivity increases generally comes from automation, which requires more skilled workers. which get more than minimum pay anyway. The productivity of typical low wage jobs (shoveling sand, cleaning, delivering stuff) tends to increase a lot less over time.
– Guntram Blohm
2 hours ago


















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